'Polymorph other' overpowered??

[Dog Faced God]

Here's what happened in last night's game: 8th level wizard w/ Fox's Cunning (22 INT), and Spell Focus: Transmutation gets the drop on a rival sorcerer. Wizard casts Polymorph Other on the sorcerer, trying to turn the sorcerer into a jellyfish. Is it just me, or has Polymorph Other just become Power Word - Kill with a save? Should I let this fly? Should I freak out and 'fix' Polymorph Other? If so, how to fix it?

 

[dcollins]

Historically, that's been the whole main point of polymorph other in D&D (a very dangerous way of getting rid of enemies).

The incredible usefulness of polymorphing allies into powerful creatures is a more recent phenomenon, with 3rd Ed. taking away all the extra perils of the spell.

See this thread for a very recent discussion: http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21393

 

[Lucius Foxhound]

Remember, it's best to use the word "broken" rather than "overpowered" if you're trying to get people riled up.

But Polymorph Other isn't broken. You're not killing them, you're polymorphing them. Another Wiz/Sor could easily cast dispel magic the next round or perhaps the other sorcerer has a contingency spell set up to cast dispel if someone polymorph's him (something all Sor/Wizards should do!). After all, it's like any spell that immobilizes a person ... a sleep spell could easily become the death of any Wizard hit by it. Certainly Hold Person does the same thing at a lower level.

But besides, as a 4th level spell, you're in the range of save or probably die spells (e.g., Phantasmal Killer).

 

[Forrester]

Poly Other has always been save-or-immobilize; I remember back in 1E it made a point to say that a brontosaurus polymorphed into an ant would most certainly not get killed by being stepped on by a man-size object, or even a bigger one.

Some players have posted that you should polymorph opponents into some sort of deep-deep-deep-deep sea creature that would normally explode in this atmosphere. I'm a little skeptical that such a creature exists (that it would actually EXPLODE), and I'm even more skeptical that most wizards have ever seen one, or would know that such creatures exist.

This is just my way of saying that I would resist players insisting they can make Poly Other into an immediate save-or-die; turning your opponent into a slug or a trout is bad enough . They'll die quickly without care -- but not *immediately*.

 

[Dog Faced God]

These are all very good points. Thanks for weighing in. Anyone have any thoughts on nharwell's polymorph revisions over in the house rules section? They seem to genericize (if that's a word...) the polymorph spells without removing a whole lot of functionality. I'm also considering a 'radical change save bonus' to Polymorph Other similar to the Polymorph Any Object. Any thoughts?

 

[Cergorach]

Do not, i repeat, do not, under any circumstances pollymoph the Beholder into a frog! Although ammusing (to you, certainly not the Beholder), those things a freaky quick and jumpy. It was gone before i knew it (jumped into thick vegitation where i could not follow it), next think i know i've got a very pissed Beholder on my hands that wants to tear me to pieces (it ran/jumped straight to the stash of potion he and his 'friend' had lying nearby, the potion was Polymorph self)...

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

The whole deep sea/preasure thing is not handled all that well in 3E, if it should even be brought up at all. Besides, just turning him into a trout isn't bad enough? he only has a few rounds any way, as he is sufffocating. Even with using pressure, it does HP in damage if I'm not mistaken, so it's not neccesarily an instant kill.

The house rule that you can only use forms that you have seen is a good one. By the time a PC can say "I've seen everything...", this spell won't be of the same level of power.

Not a bad spell by Nharwell, but if I went that route, I'd be tempted to take the T&B polys and make them 6th or 7th level, and the old polys 8th or 9th, just to keep up the tree.