Polymorph self and CON loss

[Onysablet]

Hi there!

We are now running a kind of difficult situation and we must escape form the place we are in (it's about to colapse). I have a cloak (Cloak of Black Feathers, it appears in some web enhancement of WotC) that allows me to polymorph in a hawk (as polymorph self). The problem is my CON has been drained form 18 to 3 points, it is, 15 points less. Now my current hp is 7.
When you polymorph you gain the physical ablities of that you polymorph into (but you retain your hp and HD). So... can I polymorph into a hawk and gain its 10 CON or do the CON loss prevail and if I polymorph into it I die?
Any opinions?

Thanks in advance!

Bye!!!

-Edited for grammar check-

 

[Camarath]

Your new Con score is not affected by your base Con score even if you have suffered temporary or permanent ability damage in your normal form. If you were to suffer ability damage in that form it would change its Con. But, I think it would not change your Con when you changed back, I could by wrong about this last point.

 

[AuraSeer]

I don't agree, Camarath. Polymorphing does not remove ability damage or drain, it just changes your base stats. Effects that modify the stats are applied to the new form.

You change from a human with 15 points of Con drain, into a hawk with 15 points of Con drain. Since your Con is below zero, you instantly die.

 

[Camarath]

Ability damage is not like subdual damage, it is like normal damage it lowers your total rather than stacking up to equal your total thus when your score is replaced it doesnt affect the new score.

 

[Mahali]

Aura Seer has it correct.

Just as if you have 4 ponts of a Con drain and Endurance wears off. The stat damage doesn't just go away because spells change the stat itself.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Reminds me of the Divine Power trick.

Polymorph into a bat, Str 1, through whatever means you have available.
Use an Infusion of Divine Power, or Natural Spell to cast it, to provide an enhancement bonus sufficient to raise your Str to 18 : +17 enhancement bonus.
Dispel the Polymorph to turn back into your normal Half-Orc Barbarian/Cleric self, with a natural 22 Str, and Rage.

22 + 17 + 4 makes for some big hits with the greataxe.

-Hyp.

 

[Mort]

Reminds me of the Divine Power trick.

Polymorph into a bat, Str 1, through whatever means you have available.
Use an Infusion of Divine Power, or Natural Spell to cast it, to provide an enhancement bonus sufficient to raise your Str to 18 : +17 enhancement bonus.
Dispel the Polymorph to turn back into your normal Half-Orc Barbarian/Cleric self, with a natural 22 Str, and Rage.

22 + 17 + 4 makes for some big hits with the greataxe.

-Hyp.

That’s cute, but you shouldn’t get away with it. Divine Power gives you an enhancement bonus sufficient to raise your strength to 18 – “if it’s not already 18 or higher.” When you polymorph into a form (or back into your own form) that has higher than an 18 strength the spell will no longer help.
Interpreting it any other way leads to silly, mad results.

As for the topic at hand, I agree that ability damage is kept through forms (so would a bonus - such as bulls strength since it is an actual bonus and does not mention it revolves around a specific number like divine power does).

Just a thought

 

[Hypersmurf]

Divine Power gives you an enhancement bonus sufficient to raise your strength to 18 – “if it’s not already 18 or higher.”

That's right.

When you polymorph into a form (or back into your own form) that has higher than an 18 strength the spell will no longer help.

Explain how Shillelagh works, then.

-Hyp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Hyp - that's a cool one I never thought of before... What happens if you start out with a form that has no strength like a formian queen? The only argument I can imagine which would counter that tactic would be that a spell continuously re-evaluates it's parameters (and therefore divine power would reder you immune to strength damage or drain for it's duration). Of course that opens up a whole new can of beans...

As to ability damage:

My point of view is that con drain or damage would be ignored for the purpose of polymorph effects. The new form has a normal con for whatever it is that you've been turned into and the drain or damage doesn't apply.

This is a little bit different with enhancement bonuses or penalties : as long as the spell remains in effect, the penalty is applied to the pertinent stat.

The way I see it is that ability drain and damage is a physical effect, and can therefore be cancelled by altering the damaged form into something else.

The enhancement penalty/bonus is a magical effect, and is therefore immune to this cancelling effect.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The only argument I can imagine which would counter that tactic would be that a spell continuously re-evaluates it's parameters (and therefore divine power would reder you immune to strength damage or drain for it's duration). Of course that opens up a whole new can of beans...

Yeah - there's a list of spells I pull out to illustrate the can of beans

Shillelagh.
Bless.
Levitate.
Heat Metal.
Quest.
Slow.

-Hyp.