Polymorphing your familiar

[the Jester]

One of the players imc is a sorcerer, just achieved fourth level spells and took polymorph other. He was talking about polymorphing his familiar into a troll, and we got into a heated debate about whether a toad would want to be a troll. I'm pretty dubious of that; I feel that most creatures are happy to be what they are, for the most part.

Another issue is balance. The familiars in the PH give different bonuses of differing strengths; the weakest familiar (the toad, which said sorcerer has) gives the best bonus, but what difference does that make if you can turn it (permanently, mind you) into a troll?

Anyway, thought I'd reach out for some opinions on this, I don't want to be unreasonable but I sort of have a sneaky feeling that letting him do this could be a touch abusive...

 

[Iku Rex]

He was talking about polymorphing his familiar into a troll,

Too big. PO can't change a target into something more than one size category larger than it's normal size.

Other than that, I don't think most familiars would mind becoming bigger and stronger. And even if they do, the familiar doesn't necessarily have much of a say in the matter if the master insists...

Note that a polymorphed familiar no longer has an "Empathic Link" with the master, and becomes a more prominent target for enemies to attack.

 

[Carnifex]

I think a familiar would be quite happy to polymorph into something else for its master, if they have a friendly relationship, and if the relationship is one where the familiar is merely a servant then he wont have much say in the matter anyway (though what he would do once given a huge muscly form to play with is quite another matter).

However, it's a moot point anyway, since IIRC poly other cannot make you more than one size than your starting size anyway...

 

[Zappo]

I think permanently polymorphing someone (or something) is a very cruel thing to do. I recall one of the Drizzt books where there was a svirfneblin... no, it was some other sort of underground thing, maybe a pech. Anyway, this little dwarfie gets polymorphed into a hooked horror and eventually goes insane. It's a very nasty thing to do, and definitely not something one would be happy to receive.

 

[Carnifex]

I think permanently polymorphing someone (or something) is a very cruel thing to do. I recall one of the Drizzt books where there was a svirfneblin... no, it was some other sort of underground thing, maybe a pech. Anyway, this little dwarfie gets polymorphed into a hooked horror and eventually goes insane. It's a very nasty thing to do, and definitely not something one would be happy to receive.

I think this was due to the fact that in previous editions there was a chance that the targets mentality would change to that of whatever he was turned into - the pech was slowly turning, mentally, into a hooked horror. This mechanic no longer exists in the 3e version, so Polymorph has preuly physical effects by the rules.

Of course, I can imagine there *would* be psychological problems eventually, but it's just that the spell is no longer as likely to screw with your mind as it used to be when that Drizzt book was written.

 

[jaldaen]

One of the players imc is a sorcerer, just achieved fourth level spells and took polymorph other. He was talking about polymorphing his familiar into a troll, and we got into a heated debate about whether a toad would want to be a troll. I'm pretty dubious of that; I feel that most creatures are happy to be what they are, for the most part.

But one should remember that familiars are "magical beasts" and that as such they are not normal animals in fact they are semi-intelligent to intellegent creatures. This coupled with the idea that master and familiar are "practically one being" implies to me that if the sorcerer wanted the familiar (which happens to have the form of a toad) to become a troll the familiar would agree if only out of respect for its master's wishes...

Another issue is balance. The familiars in the PH give different bonuses of differing strengths; the weakest familiar (the toad, which said sorcerer has) gives the best bonus, but what difference does that make if you can turn it (permanently, mind you) into a troll?

Now herein lies the rub... Do you think that Polymorph Other is imbalanced? If not than you should allow this but please make sure that the sorcerer understands that the familiar does not gain the Regeneration, Scent, and Darkvision abilities as these are extraordinary abilities... (I'm not certain about the Rend as that is a special attack similar to constrict which is allowed)... Also note that the empathic link between master and familiar would be broken while the familiar is in troll form b/c it is a supernatural ability... finally b/c the form is so different from the familiar's normal form he would could possibly get a -2 to all attack, save, skill, and ability rolls during stressful and demanding situations.... (this of course would lessen over time... "years and years" to be exact)

BTW... PO can only make a creature one size category larger than normal... although I wonder if you could use PO multiple times each time increasing the size category by one... hmmm... or perhaps a combo PO and permenancy

Anyway, thought I'd reach out for some opinions on this, I don't want to be unreasonable but I sort of have a sneaky feeling that letting him do this could be a touch abusive...

I don't see any abuse as long as you make sure to enforce the rules under the polymorph spell... Also note that by making his familiar a bigger and probably more active part of the group the sorcerer is putting his familiar at much more risk and in turn risking a part of himself...

Jaldaen

 

[Carnifex]

Re: Re: Polymorphing your familiar

BTW... PO can only make a creature one size category larger than normal... although I wonder if you could use PO multiple times each time increasing the size category by one... hmmm... or perhaps a combo PO and permenancy

Jaldaen

No, you cannot - one size larger means one size larger than *you*. The target himself has a set base size category, which doesn't change when he is polymorphed by the wizard.

Also, I don't think you can permamency polymorph anyway, and certainly not polymorph other.

 

[jaldaen]

Re: Re: Re: Polymorphing your familiar

No, you cannot - one size larger means one size larger than *you*. The target himself has a set base size category, which doesn't change when he is polymorphed by the wizard.

Also, I don't think you can permamency polymorph anyway, and certainly not polymorph other.

On the the first you are dead on... I just picked up the PHB and low and behold it said " one size larger than the subject's normal form".

As for the permanency and the polymorph spell it depends on the DM... some allow it, others don't... as per the "DM may allow other selected spells to be made permanent" fiat.

Jaldaen

 

[Iku Rex]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Polymorphing your familiar

As for the permanency and the polymorph spell it depends on the DM... some allow it, others don't... as per the "DM may allow other selected spells to be made permanent" fiat.

Polymorph Other has a duration of "Permanent" already. Why waste xp on Permanency?

 

[Deathwalker]

Maybe me but !!!????

why use the "other" spell if he can cast the spell pholymorph self on him self and the toad via the share spell ability ?

Than they can alter there form as they please !!!!!
Extend the spell and in jou can shift all day long !!!


Or is it me ??