Poor DM/ Game Advice

Ovin....I’m just trying to start a conversation. The only Bona Fides I care about is that we represent a group of sentient creatures playing a game we love.

I am curious about the qualia differences between tables.

So humbly, respectfully, * earnestly* I ask how should I have phrased the question to get constructive responses?

I am staying out of it to not rankle, and to read.👍
 

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toucanbuzz

No rule is inviolate
So humbly, respectfully, * earnestly* I ask how should I have phrased the question to get constructive responses?

Well, it started off rough.

You began with a conclusion that invited contrary opinions, not a question:
The key to a Long Running campaign is the same as having a long relationship....don’t end it.😜

You then made argument in support of that conclusion, inviting criticism.
It is natural, and sometimes beneficial to flounder a bit. It gives time for tensions to unwind, and for serendipity and inspiration to happen, on both sides of the screen....

I think here in the middle is where you get to the question you probably wanted to ask:
Good games die for so many reasons out of one’s control, moving away, being deployed, births, deaths etc, it seems a shame to just surrender the chance to have a long run.

And maybe it's being asked why DMs feel their games end, other than those designed to end (e.g. a module). Is it solely because of real-life changes, or perhaps a change in player attitude (we want to try new characters, we want a fresh storyline), or DM burnout (not excited prepping this week).

Further, such questions might invite constructive answers such as things you've done to encourage either your DM (as a player) to keep the campaign going when you sense the DM is tired of it, or as a DM keeping players excited playing the same character in the same setting each week, even after months and even after what might appear a natural end to the campaign (e.g. we escaped Barovia in Curse of Strahd. )
 

Oofta

Legend
Ovin....I’m just trying to start a conversation. The only Bona Fides I care about is that we represent a group of sentient creatures playing a game we love.

You sure about that? I mean ... I'm not sure I qualify as sentient part first thing in the morning before I get some caffeine. :sleep:
 


Oofta

Legend
I was going to add that ... I mean .... look, we can be nice and all and talk about the shared humanity and sentience of our fellow commenters at enworld ...

But at the end of the day, we know that among us are the Paladin-lovers, and the gnome-players, and the rapier-lovin' dex builders, so really ... neither sentience nor shared humanity can be assumed or presumed.

Some day you'll come around. No one can resist the allure of Sir McStabsalot forever. Give into the dark dual rapier wielding gnomish paladin side. We have cake!
 


I think that each campaign has a ending unique to itself. Perhaps it's when the PC levels and power are such that continuing to play has lost its appeal, or when the over-riding goals of the party has been met, or because of group burnout, or perhaps because a player was caught having sex with a family pet and now his choice of a Ranger with an animal companion has made everyone question a lot of things in the campaign.
 
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merwins

Explorer
To @Todd Roybark , I am not sure if this is what you mean, but my groups level very slowly. My main group is lvl 13 and we started about 1-2 months after 5e was released. So about 5 years to get to 13th. I don't play published adventures, but instead we tend to focus on character growth rather over-arching story or plot. Each character has some story thread to pursue rather than an overarching villain, story, or plot. If you focus on the characters and their motivations I think you can stretch a campaign out for a long time.

However, this style seems to be an outlier on these forums. Posters here seem to go through adventures and characters a lot faster than my group.

I'd like to point out that people may have different definitions of "campaign" even though their concepts for "adventure" or "scenario" may be similar. I don't think of a campaign as simply a series of strung-together adventures. For me, a campaign involves an established world, with it's own vibrancy and story, independent of the PCs.

My group started out playing weekly to kickstart my game, then moved to fortnightly. My only goal (after several decades of not running RPGs) was to just "run 5E." I didn't even really think of it as a campaign until the players had reached level 5 or so, and I suddenly realized the world was alive. And at the same time, it struck me because life is fleeting, the campaign would end; it had to.

Started in early 2015. Just leveled to 13 a little over a month ago. Initial leveling was based on level sessions. Once we hit 10th, that wasn't going to work any more, so I switched to achievement/plot-based leveling.

My rationale is that if you don't know your character inside and out at level X, how are you going to handle level X+1? Even I was (am still) learning the system. Granted, some people are better at this than others, but I don't want person A helping person B all the time. I'd like everyone to get a sense of accomplishment with their own character, their own story, and the rules that are relevant to them.

I try to offer challenges that encourage players to really explore different ways of engaging with the story.
And I have an overarching plot that the players didn't "deserve" or "need" to know at lower levels. As they continue to develop, certain information opens up, and by the time they're 20th level, they will be able to help bring the campaign to a conclusion, or simply witness the end, as they choose.

"You don't have go home, but you can't stay here."

But, I confess, part of this is because I have no desire to sustain a series of 20th level adventures. I personally don't see 20th level characters as "adventuring" types. Rather, they are the few and far between, the carvers of territory, the changers of worlds. By this time, they should not be fully cooperating. They should have their own agendas, often in direct conflict with others--even their "friends." It makes very little sense to me to have a group of them regularly tromping about the land without decimating it, deliberately or inadvertently. (Most inadvertently, so far. :) )

So by the time they hit level 20, I expect divisiveness and alliances to gradually take hold, priorities to be clearly established, minions to come into play, etc. Partnerships may become untenable, or a character might choose to lose some until-then integral aspect of their identity... to sacrifice their own goals to serve another's.

But I expect that's several years away.
 
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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
I just find it difficult to believe that at the end of the Starter set adventure the advice to new DMs is: “If you had fun playing this, consider quitting, it can’t get better”.

The end of Lost Mine of Phandelver says:

"By the end of the adventure, the characters should be
5th level. If your players wish to continue playing their
characters, you can use the contents of this set to create
your own adventures; the mysterious map found in area 14
of Wave Echo Cave provides one possible adventure hook,
but feel free to explore other ideas using the monsters,
magic items, and locations in this adventure. If you want
to create adventures for characters higher than 5th
level, you'll need the basic rules online or the advanced
rulebooks: the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's
Guide, and Monster Manual."

So, in fact, they drop a few points as to how to continue with the same characters. Absolutely no suggestion of quitting is given. I am not sure why you would misrepresent it.
 

dave2008

Legend
Started in early 2015. Just leveled to 13 a little over a month ago. Initial leveling was based on level sessions. Once we hit 10th, that wasn't going to work any more, so I switched to achievement/plot-based leveling.
Glad to see we are not the only group leveling at this pace!
 

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