poor rational for "updating" Magic Missile?

[Nifft]

(discussion of "what is an attack")

So it appears that those saying attack powers do not require an attack roll to be counted as one might be correct. It's definitely something we could use a FAQ ruling on, but I am personally willing to go with what Greg says here as something that is logical. It does however have some nasty repercussions.

Yeah, I'm not sure they've really weighed the consequences here.

Again, I'm not taking any particular side in the debate over whether MM is an attack or not. If it is, a lot of other things are going to need an update. If it's not an attack, then Greater Invisibility becomes a rather strong tactic.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Zaran]

Yeah, I'm not sure they've really weighed the consequences here.

Again, I'm not taking any particular side in the debate over whether MM is an attack or not. If it is, a lot of other things are going to need an update. If it's not an attack, then Greater Invisibility becomes a rather strong tactic.

Cheers, -- N

Hasn't it already been said that auto damage instances like Rain of Steel and Cleave are not attacks? Because if they were than a fighter could use their marking ability in those instances.

 

[Shazman]

Ah...stuff I pay no attention to.

It's not like it would be easy to keep up with them anyway since a lot of things get changed every two months. Even without essentials, I think we have already crossed the line into 4.5 territory.

 

[Mythtify]

I am grateful for all the replies. Though I am not really concerned about the benifits and mechanics behind the new MM. What concerns me is the changing of a game rule/power in an established game for no stated reason other than they want to change the way the game "feels".

I don't by into the concept that the current designers care about "classic" D&D. 4e is so far beyond the previous editions, and plays so differently, that any claim of a desire to see the game play in a "classic" way just rings false to me. I don't want to start a essentials is 4.5 argument, though I think that people who said the change may have something to do with essentials may be on to something. I am going to take WoTC at their word, and assume that there was no mechanical reason for changing MM.

For me, changing the rules two years after publishing just to provide a different "feel" to the game is a violation of the trust that I have in the designers. I expect a game to continue to be updated, and changes to be made to fix problems in the game mechanics that are having an effect on game play. This far into 4e, I am invested in the way the game plays, and have expectations on how the rules are going to work together. My understanding of the rules of the game and how they flow get turned about when something changes for no mechanical reason. My expectations, and ability to spot a rule or a mechanic that may be "broken" gets twisted about when the designers are striving to change the feel of an established game instead of making the mechanics work as best they can.

I am a guy who will buy a product because of the designers, not just because of the product brand. I'll support some designers just like I'll suppurt a music artist. I know their work, they have built a trust in me toward their work. WotC has broken some of that trust by changing a rule "just because". If they do it once, they will do it again. So, it isn't about MM, its about why WotC decides to make a change, and if it is acceptable to the people that support their efforts.

 

[DracoSuave]

Draco walks in to the discussion on the new magic missile being good, bad...

Draco looks at Cloud of Daggers, realizes he's had all the utility Magic Missile has now, plus more, all along...

Draco wonders to himself why they needed to repeat the auto-hit utility while taking away a slightly harder hitting damage spell that could be enhanced to push things...

Draco muses that changes for the sake of returning things to a 'classical form' are only okay when said changes actually add something to the game...

Draco mourns the loss of an at-will that didn't try to compete with a different at-will.

 

[keterys]

Part of me is surprised they didn't just do it by just adding a Miss: Int damage line. Or if they _really_ wanted minions to die, remove Int from the hit line and add Effect: Int damage.

Heck, then they could even give a greater nod to 'classics' and make it
Hit: 1d4 + 1 damage
Effect: Int damage

Though I think it would have been more fun as:
Special: Add a second target at 11th, third target at 21st.
Effect: One of the targets takes Int damage.

 

[Otterscrubber]

I appreciate that... But this auto-hit thing sits poorly with me. It seems to be throwing everything about 4e design out the window to placate a subset of the gaming population t hat is going to complain NO MATTER WHAT.

Testify Brother!!!

 

[Gradine]

We had our first game session after the errata and as a wizard who took MM... I hate the change. It's boring. We often have situations where we fight at range, and I and our seeker (I think that's his class) are the ones with range. I only have a couple spells with range 20, and one of them is MM... and this last session was completely unfun with it. I barely made any combat rolls, it was just "This guys takes 7. And then I take a nap until my next turn."

Something definitely sounds boring here, and I don't know I'd say it was the power.

I think it's pretty obvious that any encounter that requires you to spam the same at-will over and over again is going to make it seem pretty boring, especially if there's no roll attached to it. But there is such a thing as too much. I may like a spoonful of sugar with my breakfast, but I'm not about to eat a bowl full of sugar.

I think the problem comes from the fact that the new MM means you're not rolling any dice. Even the Magic Missiles of yore had damage rolls. I think sometimes players get the feeling that if they're not rolling dice they're not really playing, and that, in my opinion, is quite unfortunate.

 

[Mengu]

There have been many encounters, where after a string of bad rolls, we start hoping for crits to speed up the encounter. Every attack a player rolls is a chance for a crit. So the party crit pool is something to pay attention to. The new magic missile takes one action out of five out of the equation for generating crits. Not sure if it's something to cry over, but certainly something to consider, especially when fighting zombies

 

[renau1g]

Even more during encounter's with Wizard's Fury activated, which if you took Magic Missile, you would likely want this power.