D&D (2024) Postmortem: 10 Ideas in 5e that didn't quite work...

[James Gasik]

Still doesn't work. Small characters are normally better off dual-wielding non-heavy weapons than using a versatile weapon two-handed.

Eh? Isn't dual wielding terrible?

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Eh? Isn't dual wielding terrible?

Kinda. It depends on the class. Sometimes it's worth it (mainly for Rogues, in my experience). It increases your damage per turn by about 3.5 damage (or 4.5 if you have the Dual Wielder feat), while wielding a versatile weapon with two hands only increases your DPR by 1 per attack.

 

[Eyes of Nine]

All in all, these made 5e work more as a toolbox than a rigid system, and this was very much intended when designers repeatedly stated that the purpose was to allow for as many different playstyle as possible.

First of all, my head just the idea of everything disparate, instead of connected.

Now, it feels like where the PHB missed was being explicit in calling each of these things options, and laying out the book in a way of "hey - here's a bunch of options, that you can connect in this way, or not."

They could also say "here's what we call the 'default' that we're going to enforce in Adventurer's League; but we'll support all the other options listed in this book on our virtual tabletop and D&D beyond, since they are 'Official Options'".

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I think Mearls wanted something like Drives in PbtA games or aspects in Fate games but made something needlessly complex and monstrous from it that failed to understand why they work in PbtA or Fate games.

That tracks. Which is a shame, because I love any random tables RPGs provide as inspiration. They really should've just used the background tables to form the parts of some kind of a high concept line, so the GM might remember that one line per character...
'rambunctuous hermit who wants to get back into The Council'
'ambitious necromancer's apprentice who ran with the wrong crowd'
'curious cook with a lot of family drama'

 

[Eyes of Nine]

I completely agree with you. Aspects in Fate are core to what the character is, and get used all the time mechanically, without also class and such. And are most often refeerence and used by player, which will lead to familiarity. This, where it's 25 statements (assuming 5 person party) that the DM has to memorize and catch in use (as opposed to intentionally calling out) is just a flawed implementation. But I love the concept and hope they don't give it up. Back in the 90s Vampire had RP prompts (an overt nature and a hidden nature) that RPing to would recharge Willpower, a very important aspect. D&D is really behind the ball in terms of mechanical support for RP.

I think BIFTs should have powered Inspiration. Also Inspiration should have been 1 per PC, but a pool of Inspiration for the party would have been cool

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Isn't dual wielding terrible?

It is if you have other stuff you could be using your bonus action on. If you don't, might as well. Rogues are a special case in that they have other uses for bonus actions, but also really want that extra off-hand opportunity to land that Sneak Attack. Oh, and 5e had to make drawing both weapons weird...

 

[James Gasik]

Kinda. It depends on the class. Sometimes it's worth it (mainly for Rogues, in my experience). It increases your damage per turn by about 3.5 damage (or 4.5 if you have the Dual Wielder feat), while wielding a versatile weapon with two hands only increases your DPR by 1 per attack.

Personally, I prefer to play my Rogues as ranged attackers, as I find they're a touch fragile for melee. I wouldn't be using a versatile weapon on a Rogue anyways. I mean, I get it, if you have a free hand and nothing better to do with a bonus action, it's generally better to dual wield.

So I guess Monks are the only ones who care about versatile after all, since what Small sized character really needs a weapon damage die or the ability to wield a weapon in two hands?

 

[Blue]

I think BIFTs should have powered Inspiration. Also Inspiration should have been 1 per PC, but a pool of Inspiration for the party would have been cool

BIFTs did grant Inspiration, can you unpack a little on what you mean by "powered inspiration"? I'm not sure I'm understanding your point.

 

[Li Shenron]

Now, it feels like where the PHB missed was being explicit in calling each of these things options

Absolutely

 

[Aldarc]

I completely agree with you. Aspects in Fate are core to what the character is, and get used all the time mechanically, without also class and such. And are most often refeerence and used by player, which will lead to familiarity. This, where it's 25 statements (assuming 5 person party) that the DM has to memorize and catch in use (as opposed to intentionally calling out) is just a flawed implementation. But I love the concept and hope they don't give it up. Back in the 90s Vampire had RP prompts (an overt nature and a hidden nature) that RPing to would recharge Willpower, a very important aspect. D&D is really behind the ball in terms of mechanical support for RP.

If so, I would go something closer with Drives that are in Homebrew World (a Dungeon World hack). The player may be given four different drives to choose from based on their class, and they would choose one. These are connected to XP in Homebrew World, but these could be connected to Inspiration.

Fighter

 Challenge
Enter a fight that you aren’t sure you can win
 Glory
Show off in front of NPCs who can go on to tell your tale
 Peace
Settle a conflict or dispute without bloodshed
 Pride
Put someone in their place for disrespecting you

Wizard

 Curiosity
Cause trouble by touching, opening, or tinkering with something
 Cunning
Set up a ploy and then take advantage of it
 Eccentricity
Alienate another with your strange behavior
 Mystery
Deflect or evade an inquiry into your doings

Choosing one makes it easier for the players and GM to track. Tying it to class makes it about leaning into some potential archetypes and such.

OR ALTERNATIVELY

If WotC wanted to, they could make a similar list that was not Class-based, but rather Alignment-based. So a player may have a list of four different drives to choose from Good or Chaos or Law, etc.