CapnZapp
Legend
I find the design space of Pathfinder 2 strangely underutilized, where mechanics such as special materials (also known as "precious materials") and talismans could have been used for so much more. I also find several subsystems annoyingly complex for little reason. Here is a random bundle of house-rules to fix various issues.
Consumables are weirdly expensive.
The strategy of "treat EVERY consumables as vendor trash" works surprisingly well in PF2, but of course sucks the fun out of a whole section of treasure.
Double the "batch" of consumables, meaning that you craft consumables in batches of 8 instead of 4. This obviously halves their purchase and sell prices. To not have to list new prices, assume all list prices (including the ones of this document) are for a pair.
Healing Potions are basically useless.
The amount of healing given might make sense for an old-school game where Wizards start with 1d4 hp. But Pathfinder 2 heroes have lots of hit points. (And, more to the point, their enemies dish out a lot of damage!)
Then add the atrocious action economy, and you understand why my party has basically not touched potions after level 1, much less purchasing some.
That is because warrior heroes don't have hands free. Keeping a hand free simply isn't supported by the CRB - you lose too much by not creating a character who uses both hands at all times.
To administer a potion to a fallen comrade you might have to spend as many as 6(!) actions, which, for the miserable amount of healing, simply isn't reasonable.
1) move action adjacent to comrade (even if only 5 ft you need to spend an entire action)
2) sheath or change grip action (hold sword with shield hand, hold both knives with left hand). A greatweapon user can skip this step since loosing your grip is free.
3) interact to draw potion (from self or comrade)
4) administer potion (or drink it yourself)
5) draw or change grip action (a greatweapon user must spend an action to again grip her weapon with two hands. You can save an action here with Quick Draw the feat)
6) move up to a new foe
I suggest the addition of a Potion Bandoleer: [Two actions] Administer potion to yourself or adjacent creature that is friendly, restrained or unconscious. You spend two Interact actions. This activity requires no hands free.
As you can see, the Potion Bandoleer reduces the action expenditure to two, regardless of your weapon loadout, since it abstracts away all the hand use malarkey. Note that administering a potion through a Potion Bandoleer still triggers attacks of opportunity (since Interact is a Manipulate action).
I furthermore suggest a complete redesign of Healing Potions (and Elixirs of Life):
The changes from RAW are:
The intended consequences to gameplay include:
The Medicine Skill is way too complicated and slow (both in the game and for the player)
One huge mismatch is that the game seems predicated on one or a few 10-minute rests being sufficient to recover from one encounter and move to the next one. But when Medicine frequently requires half an hour's worth of downtime, or 60 minutes or 90 minutes, the entire minigame of selecting your 10-minute activities completely break down for everybody else.
These changes aim to
Treat Wounds [Exploration][Healing][Manipulate]
Requirements: you have healing tools (page 290)
You spend 10 minutes treating one injured living creature (targeting yourself, if you so choose). No Medicine check is normally required but the GM is free to ask for one if the attempt is made during difficult curcumstances, such as treating a patient outside in a storm, or treating magically cursed wounds. The result is that the target regains one third of its maximum hit point total, and its wounded condition is removed.
If you have the Ward Medicine feat you can treat 2, 4 or 8 patients simultaneously. If you don't have the Continual Recovery feat, the target(s) is then temporarily immune to Treat Wounds actions for 1 hour, but this interval overlaps with the time you spent treating (so a patient can be treated once per hour, not once per 70 minutes).
Battle Medicine (the feat) is removed from play. Any instantaneous healing requires alchemy or magic. This also solves the Battle Medicine Bandoleer question once and for all.
There are only two main Weapon Special Materials that matter (except at the highest levels)
The game only uses Cold Iron (against Demons and Fey) and Mithral/Silver (against Devils and Werecreatures). Sure, Adamantine helps against constructs, but that's such a weirdly specific niche you can't expect a player to pursue it.
Instead, almost every creature type except regular humanoids should have a weakness to a special material. For example:
Add four special materials that resonate with magical energies:
Darkwood: Primal
Bronze, Elysian Bronze: Arcane
Obsidian: Occult
Bone: Divine
The intent here is to allow the creation of wands and staffs in special materials to give badly needed boosts to spellcasters. But these special materials also apply to select creature types:
Aberration: Obsidian
Animal: Darkwood
Beast: (Elysian Bronze)*
Celestial-
Construct: Adamantine
Dragon: (Elysian Bronze)*
Elemental: Adamantine
Fey: Cold Iron
Fiend: Mithral, Silver (Devils); Cold Iron (Demons)
Fungus: Darkwood
Giant: Elysian Bronze
Ooze: Obsidian
Plant: Darkwood
Undead: Bone
For the actual numbers use the following as a rough guide (or consult table 2-8 of the Gamemastery Guide, page 63):
Weakness 3: creature levels -1 to 4
Weakness 5: creature levels 3 to 8
Weakness 10: creature levels 7 to 14
Weakness 15: creature levels 13 to 20
Weakness 20: creature levels 19 and higher
The rules as written for ranged weapons and special materials doesn't make a lick of sense.
The general rule for non-magical ammunition is that it costs 1/10th of the price of a comparable weapon. Meaning an arrow costs 1/10th of the price of a bow. If applied to cold iron weapons, this amounts to each cold iron arrow costing 4 gp.
This is an exorbitant price at low level. It is a trivial price at high level. I don't know which is worst.
Also, forcing a player to track ammunition usage, except for highly specific magical ammunition, just isn't cool. But for a large portion of the game, you just can't handwave an expenditure of 144 gp (if you make three dozen arrow attacks during a day of adventuring. Remember errata clarifies all ammunition is destroyed upon use).
Also, the way the rules are written, they break the general rule that you need ever-higher material grades to enjoy stronger fundamental runes. But by the RAW, you can shoot 4 gp low-grade arrows with your +3 major striking bow, and thus gain what other weapon users cannot, namely the benefits of both runes and monster weaknesses at the same time.
Therefore consider the following more like errata than a houserule:
Ranged weapons made out of special materials confer their benefits onto ammunition fired.
This vastly simplifies everything about ranged weapons and special materials. If you're used to not tracking mundane ammunition, you can keep doing that. Special materials are no longer stupidly expensive at low level, and stupidly cheap at high level.
Talismans are basically useless
Despite monsters being very difficult, the idea that one-time bonuses (scrolls for warriors) could make a difference is simply not explored in Pathfinder 2. Instead of the insultingly small and conditional bonuses currently bestowed by Talismans, how about this:
Wolf talisman [Weapon]: When activated, this talisman gives a +1 bonus to attacks made with its weapon for 1 hour.
Bear talisman [Weapon]: When activated, this talisman gives a +2 bonus to attacks made with its weapon for 10 minutes.
Tiger talisman [Weapon]: When activated, this talisman gives a +3 bonus to attacks made with its weapon for 1 minute.
Each exists in Minor, Lesser, Moderate, Greater, Major varieties. Each talisman is restricted to a maximum creature level of its wielder equal to its item level. The item level obviously also suggests its price (again, for a pair).
For instance, a Moderate Bear Talisman would be item level 11 (and thus cost something like 300 gp for a pair). Any hero of up to level 11 would gain +2 to attacks for ten minutes, when activated. A level 12 hero would have to find or buy a Moderate Tiger Talisman (or any Greater Talisman).
The intent is to make mucking about with Talismans actually worthwhile for players.
Consumables are weirdly expensive.
The strategy of "treat EVERY consumables as vendor trash" works surprisingly well in PF2, but of course sucks the fun out of a whole section of treasure.
Double the "batch" of consumables, meaning that you craft consumables in batches of 8 instead of 4. This obviously halves their purchase and sell prices. To not have to list new prices, assume all list prices (including the ones of this document) are for a pair.
Healing Potions are basically useless.
The amount of healing given might make sense for an old-school game where Wizards start with 1d4 hp. But Pathfinder 2 heroes have lots of hit points. (And, more to the point, their enemies dish out a lot of damage!)
Then add the atrocious action economy, and you understand why my party has basically not touched potions after level 1, much less purchasing some.
That is because warrior heroes don't have hands free. Keeping a hand free simply isn't supported by the CRB - you lose too much by not creating a character who uses both hands at all times.
To administer a potion to a fallen comrade you might have to spend as many as 6(!) actions, which, for the miserable amount of healing, simply isn't reasonable.
1) move action adjacent to comrade (even if only 5 ft you need to spend an entire action)
2) sheath or change grip action (hold sword with shield hand, hold both knives with left hand). A greatweapon user can skip this step since loosing your grip is free.
3) interact to draw potion (from self or comrade)
4) administer potion (or drink it yourself)
5) draw or change grip action (a greatweapon user must spend an action to again grip her weapon with two hands. You can save an action here with Quick Draw the feat)
6) move up to a new foe
I suggest the addition of a Potion Bandoleer: [Two actions] Administer potion to yourself or adjacent creature that is friendly, restrained or unconscious. You spend two Interact actions. This activity requires no hands free.
As you can see, the Potion Bandoleer reduces the action expenditure to two, regardless of your weapon loadout, since it abstracts away all the hand use malarkey. Note that administering a potion through a Potion Bandoleer still triggers attacks of opportunity (since Interact is a Manipulate action).
I furthermore suggest a complete redesign of Healing Potions (and Elixirs of Life):
Item Level | Name | Healing (hp) | Cost (gp) |
---|---|---|---|
1 | Minor Elixir of Life | 6 | 3 |
1 | Minor Healing Potion | 10 | 4 |
3 | Lesser Healing Potion | 30 | 12 |
5 | Lesser Elixir of Life | 30 | 30 |
6 | Moderate Healing Potion | 60 | 50 |
9 | Moderate Elixir of Life | 60 | 150 |
12 | Greater Healing Potion | 120 | 400 |
13 | Greater Elixir of Life | 80 | 600 |
15 | Major Elixir of Life | 90 | 1300 |
18 | Major Healing Potion | 180 | 5000 |
19 | True Elixir of Life | 120 | 3000 |
- the price now indicates the purchase price of a pair of potions/elixirs. The actual numbers remain unchanged.
- potion use requires no dice rolling to speed up gameplay
- Healing Potions now give 10 hp times the item level - use this as a guideline for any non-standard healing consumable with no significant secondary bonus, such as the Saint's Balm - it would simply heal 70 hp since it is item level 7.
- Elixirs of Life now give 6 hp times the item level (rounded). Use this as your guideline for other healing consumables with benefits too. For instance, a Panacea Fruit is a level 19 item whose healing powers wouldn't be unreasonable to set at 120 hp.
The intended consequences to gameplay include:
- making a dedicated combat healer less obligatory (now that potions work faster and stronger, warriors can help themselves)
- potions are actually used and purchased by players
- potions replace Battle Medicine, which was always an awkward ability (in every sense)
The Medicine Skill is way too complicated and slow (both in the game and for the player)
One huge mismatch is that the game seems predicated on one or a few 10-minute rests being sufficient to recover from one encounter and move to the next one. But when Medicine frequently requires half an hour's worth of downtime, or 60 minutes or 90 minutes, the entire minigame of selecting your 10-minute activities completely break down for everybody else.
These changes aim to
- keep the promise of downtime nearly always being complete after 1 to 3 ten-minute periods
- completely remove the niggly details of Medicine use
- considerably cut down on time and brain energy spent between encounters. The minigame of choosing/optimizing which DC to aim for is removed. Die rolling and decision points are minimized.
Treat Wounds [Exploration][Healing][Manipulate]
Requirements: you have healing tools (page 290)
You spend 10 minutes treating one injured living creature (targeting yourself, if you so choose). No Medicine check is normally required but the GM is free to ask for one if the attempt is made during difficult curcumstances, such as treating a patient outside in a storm, or treating magically cursed wounds. The result is that the target regains one third of its maximum hit point total, and its wounded condition is removed.
If you have the Ward Medicine feat you can treat 2, 4 or 8 patients simultaneously. If you don't have the Continual Recovery feat, the target(s) is then temporarily immune to Treat Wounds actions for 1 hour, but this interval overlaps with the time you spent treating (so a patient can be treated once per hour, not once per 70 minutes).
Battle Medicine (the feat) is removed from play. Any instantaneous healing requires alchemy or magic. This also solves the Battle Medicine Bandoleer question once and for all.
There are only two main Weapon Special Materials that matter (except at the highest levels)
The game only uses Cold Iron (against Demons and Fey) and Mithral/Silver (against Devils and Werecreatures). Sure, Adamantine helps against constructs, but that's such a weirdly specific niche you can't expect a player to pursue it.
Instead, almost every creature type except regular humanoids should have a weakness to a special material. For example:
Add four special materials that resonate with magical energies:
Darkwood: Primal
Bronze, Elysian Bronze: Arcane
Obsidian: Occult
Bone: Divine
The intent here is to allow the creation of wands and staffs in special materials to give badly needed boosts to spellcasters. But these special materials also apply to select creature types:
Aberration: Obsidian
Animal: Darkwood
Beast: (Elysian Bronze)*
Celestial-
Construct: Adamantine
Dragon: (Elysian Bronze)*
Elemental: Adamantine
Fey: Cold Iron
Fiend: Mithral, Silver (Devils); Cold Iron (Demons)
Fungus: Darkwood
Giant: Elysian Bronze
Ooze: Obsidian
Plant: Darkwood
Undead: Bone
- Animals, Plants and Fungus have a weakness to Darkwood. Only weapons largely constructed out of wood can be manufactured using Darkwood. I would suggest clubs, spears and bows to begin with. Darkwood is the Primal material.
- Aberrations and Oozes have a weakness to Obsidian. Only weapons dealing piercing damage can be manufactured using Obsidian. Obsidian is the Occult material.
- Huge and Gargantuan living creatures (including Beasts, Dragons and Giants) have a weakness to Elysium Bronze. Only melee weapons dealing slashing or piercing damage can be made out of Elysium Bronze. Elysian Bronze is the Arcane material.
- Undead have a weakness to Bone. Only melee weapons dealing blunt damage can be manufactured using Bone. Bone is the Divine material.
- Bronze is a entry-level alternative for Elysium Bronze as the Arcane material, meaning you can get a bronze wand to enjoy the new talismans at low level. Huge monsters are still only weak to Elysium Bronze.
- Elementals are added to Constructs as having a weakness to Adamantine.
For the actual numbers use the following as a rough guide (or consult table 2-8 of the Gamemastery Guide, page 63):
Weakness 3: creature levels -1 to 4
Weakness 5: creature levels 3 to 8
Weakness 10: creature levels 7 to 14
Weakness 15: creature levels 13 to 20
Weakness 20: creature levels 19 and higher

The general rule for non-magical ammunition is that it costs 1/10th of the price of a comparable weapon. Meaning an arrow costs 1/10th of the price of a bow. If applied to cold iron weapons, this amounts to each cold iron arrow costing 4 gp.
This is an exorbitant price at low level. It is a trivial price at high level. I don't know which is worst.
Also, forcing a player to track ammunition usage, except for highly specific magical ammunition, just isn't cool. But for a large portion of the game, you just can't handwave an expenditure of 144 gp (if you make three dozen arrow attacks during a day of adventuring. Remember errata clarifies all ammunition is destroyed upon use).
Also, the way the rules are written, they break the general rule that you need ever-higher material grades to enjoy stronger fundamental runes. But by the RAW, you can shoot 4 gp low-grade arrows with your +3 major striking bow, and thus gain what other weapon users cannot, namely the benefits of both runes and monster weaknesses at the same time.
Therefore consider the following more like errata than a houserule:
Ranged weapons made out of special materials confer their benefits onto ammunition fired.
This vastly simplifies everything about ranged weapons and special materials. If you're used to not tracking mundane ammunition, you can keep doing that. Special materials are no longer stupidly expensive at low level, and stupidly cheap at high level.
Talismans are basically useless
Despite monsters being very difficult, the idea that one-time bonuses (scrolls for warriors) could make a difference is simply not explored in Pathfinder 2. Instead of the insultingly small and conditional bonuses currently bestowed by Talismans, how about this:
Wolf talisman [Weapon]: When activated, this talisman gives a +1 bonus to attacks made with its weapon for 1 hour.
Bear talisman [Weapon]: When activated, this talisman gives a +2 bonus to attacks made with its weapon for 10 minutes.
Tiger talisman [Weapon]: When activated, this talisman gives a +3 bonus to attacks made with its weapon for 1 minute.
Each exists in Minor, Lesser, Moderate, Greater, Major varieties. Each talisman is restricted to a maximum creature level of its wielder equal to its item level. The item level obviously also suggests its price (again, for a pair).
Talisman | Wolf | Bear | Tiger |
---|---|---|---|
Minor | 2 | 3 | 4 |
Lesser | 6 | 7 | 8 |
Moderate | 10 | 11 | 12 |
Greater | 14 | 15 | 16 |
Major | 18 | 19 | 20 |
For instance, a Moderate Bear Talisman would be item level 11 (and thus cost something like 300 gp for a pair). Any hero of up to level 11 would gain +2 to attacks for ten minutes, when activated. A level 12 hero would have to find or buy a Moderate Tiger Talisman (or any Greater Talisman).
The intent is to make mucking about with Talismans actually worthwhile for players.
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