Power Attack + Critical Hit

[werk]

I'll play!

OK, attack, crit threat, then:

"To find out if it's a critical hit, you immediately make a critical roll - another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made."

So you are making a critical roll, which is a special type of attack roll.

True strike says the insight bonus applies "during your next attack. Your next single attack roll..." so the wording of true strike is the issue because it forbids further use of the modifier.

I would say that because the inclusive and specific wording in critical hit, it trumps the wording in true strike that is clearly in place to prevent applying the bonus to multiple attacks.

 

[kjenks]

Turn 1: Draw +2 Keen Falchion, True Strike, Rage
Turn 2: Charge, Power Attack for #

Don't Rage until you attack. It makes no sense to lower your AC for a round -- and use up a round of raging -- until you actually need that +4 Str.

 

[swordsmasher]

Don't Rage until you attack. It makes no sense to lower your AC for a round -- and use up a round of raging -- until you actually need that +4 Str.

Nah, It's all good, brutha! He's got that feat that extends his rage a few rounds after he drinks the blood or eats the heart of his victims. Gotta love it. lol

 

[swordsmasher]

Also, to jump in to the Threadjacker's arguments:

I would say the True Strike bonus would be applied to the confirmation roll simply because it in itself is not a seperate Entity or Instant of an Attack Roll, it is a second roll made as part of your first attack simply to confirm a critical hit. If the player had a feat or ability that stated they were not required to make a confirmation roll, the attack would still be a critical hit along with the true strike bonuses. Also, when making a confirmation roll, things like concealment and all that don't apply, because you already have to have hit your opponent and scored in your threat range to make it in the first place.

I can see where the wording get's conflustercated, especially with true strike, but think of it as a flow chart that looks something like this:

1A. Attack Roll: Threat Scored
1B.---Confirmation Roll: Critical Hit scored

 

[Legildur]

Don't Rage until you attack. It makes no sense to lower your AC for a round -- and use up a round of raging -- until you actually need that +4 Str.

Or the bonus to Con for hit points, Fort saves, holding breath time limit, or the bonus to Will saves that also comes with it.

 

[Kandor]

So if I am wielding a two handed weapon with a crit multiplier of x2, and I power attack for 5, my extra damage becomes 20? (5x2 for two hander, then x2 again for crit).

One of my greatsword wielding/power attacking players had an interesting take on this. Quoting the rules about how doublings/multipliers are stacked (two double damages equals triple damage), he insisted that the double strength damage from two-handed power attacked would be tripled on a greatsword crit, not quadrupled. In the above example, he would apply +15 to damage, not +20.

It was his own character and he argued the point strongly, so I went with it that entire campaign. I always have wondered, though, was he right? It did seem to 'mellow' two-handed power attacked a bit.

 

[Nail]

Different multiplications.

The critical multiplies the entire weapon damage, not just that from power attack. So the "doubling rules" don't apply.

 

[Christian]

Along those same lines, an enemy NPC in the campaign I run for my kids just (very briefly) learned a lesson I'd figured out quite a long time ago. If you're evil, never fight a Paladin who has the Spirited Charge feat and smites left on the day, on terrain where he can aim a mounted charge at you. The 5x damage on a crit multiplies that smite evil bonus, you know ... Splat.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

One of my greatsword wielding/power attacking players had an interesting take on this. Quoting the rules about how doublings/multipliers are stacked (two double damages equals triple damage), he insisted that the double strength damage from two-handed power attacked would be tripled on a greatsword crit, not quadrupled. In the above example, he would apply +15 to damage, not +20.

The quote itself should have undone him. Note that the text for Power Attack never mentions doubling or multiplying of any kind. For every point you subtract from your to-hit roll, you add 2 points to damage. But you aren't doubling anything. You're taking one value from one thing, and adding another value to another.

I'm unsure if this was intentionally done to bypass the doubling rules, or is a coincidence that happens to match the designers' intent, but either way, there's no doubling involved in the value added to damage from Power Attack, so the only multiplier to worry about is the critical one.

Now, when wielding a lance with Spirited Charge, the doubling rules come into play.

 

[shilsen]

Now, when wielding a lance with Spirited Charge, the doubling rules come into play.

Ah, but the important question is whether the lance is used one-handed or two-handed