Power Attack still sucks

[Kzach]

Wow, they still haven't gotten this right. I can't believe it's been so long and yet Power Attack still sucks even in 4e.

I was thinking about simply dropping the penalty to hit from -2 to -1, but my sleep-deprived brain can't quite fish out the consequences of that right now.

Anyway, I'd love to hear from people what they think and how they're going to go about fixing this old problem.

 

[Wik]

Wait... power attack sucked in third edition?

 

[Fredrik Svanberg]

I think we'll need a better explanation of why it sucks before we can begin discussing this. Or any kind of explanation.

 

[Kzach]

I think we'll need a better explanation of why it sucks before we can begin discussing this. Or any kind of explanation.

Kinda thought it was obvious. Obviously, it's not.

Any melee-based class relies entirely on hitting to activate any of their powers. This, combined with the balanced increases in bonuses to hit and the scarcity of permanent abilities that add to hit chances, and the temporary nature of most powers that add to hit chance, makes your to hit score incredibly important.

Any ability that lowers that potential, is a massive hit to the character's power.

Damage is limited in similar ways, but by far isn't as important as actually hitting.

So, basically, -2/+2 is a very bad trade-off. It's pretty much a waste of a feat for all but very limited situations.

And yes, Power Attack in 3.x was broken. Refer to the recent competition to 'fix' it as just one example.

 

[Fredrik Svanberg]

So what would be a better, easier and more balanced version? This is the Creations and House Rules forum, not the whine-about-rules-you-don't-like forum. Well I guess it can be that too, but then I expect someone to provide a solution.

To say that it's just useful in some situations doesn't make it a bad feat. Many other feats are only useful in a few situations.

Now, I have a few ideas that could make Power Attack more interesting. None of them are better, easier to use or more balanced than the current version though but perhaps you will find them useful:

1) Instead of a flat +2 bonus to damage, add +1d4 for one-handed weapons and +1d6 for two-handed weapons. The average is the same but the potential for even greater damage is there. Add another dice for Paragon and a third dice for Epic tier games. This will of course make critical hits completely nuts.

2) Make it a -1 to hit for +2 to damage. This makes powerattacking with two-handed weapons even stronger than it already is. It's easier to use though.

3) Remove the penalty completely. Make it so that you only deal extra damage against enemies who grant combat advantage. Is that better? It removes all control over when to use the feat from the player but on the other hand it automatically works in a situation when most people would use it anyway. It's probably too powerful and not a good idea to do this.

 

[lordkiwi]

I think Power Attack is viable as is, but some other interesting ways of implimenting it...

1> Spend an AP to turn a hit into a critical.
2> If you miss, your next attack gets the damage bonus. This is calculated per attack roll, not per power used.

 

[generalhenry]

it should be per [W] damage, not a flat bonus.

It's not that bad for basic attacks as it is, but it's horrible for powers.

 

[Dormain1]

it should be per [W] damage, not a flat bonus.

It's not that bad for basic attacks as it is, but it's horrible for powers.

I think that is the point of the power you can use it with a basic attack

I didn't mind Fredrik's option 1 add d4 or d6 for a -2

 

[Fredrik Svanberg]

it should be per [W] damage, not a flat bonus.

It's not that bad for basic attacks as it is, but it's horrible for powers.

Nothing else is per [w]. Strength bonus, weapon enhancement bonuses, other feats - nothing is added more than once.

It's obvious that powerattack is supposed to be used against things that are easier to hit, or when you have bonuses that compensates for it. Being a fighter using his favored weapon and charging is enough to compensate for the -2 penalty. Combat advantage also makes up for it. Brutes are huge sacks of hit points that usually have slightly lower AC than other monsters - perfect for Power Attacking.

 

[generalhenry]

Nothing else is per [w]

True, but a minus to hit effects all the [W]s of daily, if we want power attack to be used for anything other than basic attacks it needs to effect all the [W]s too.

it's -10% to hit which should be matched by +10% to damage not +2 to damage