Power Gaming

[Patlin]

2 feats, +3 to-hit, average damage 19.5, crit 19-20

...

Let's give two feats to the greatsword wielder to "even things out" - Weapon Focus and Power Attack.

+5 to-hit, average damage 19, crit 19-20.

Also note that with 2 more points of base attack, they could have an absolutely equal attack bonus and the power attack user is doing 3.5 damage more on average. And the power attack guy doesn't get constant questions from barmaids and evil overlords as to whether he's compensating for something!

I'd have to agree that your "power gamer" isn't particularly good at power gaming. The best way to even things out may be to help out your other players with building effective characters and using them well through some friendly advice. If the other players are taking feats like "Diplomat" and "Skill Focus(Riding)" the imbalance might be on the other end.

 

[gleicher27]

I may finally give up the game. I play with college students and have been unable to hook up with adult players and I think it is killing me. No matter how hard I try, I always seem to get a few power players in my group and they hurt the game. I just started a new campaign at 3rd level and one player bought a huge bastard sword and using feats is doing 3d8 damage way outstripping the other players. So in order for me to offer him a challenge in combat, I will have to put something together that will easily kill the other players. I will let him use this weapon for a few games and then I will sunder it to pieces, but I am tired of always fighting this. To me D&D has become about power gaming. All of the feats designed to go around the rules and create exceptions and special abilities have gone crazy. I am just not sure I have it in me to care anymore.

Since I don't know your group it is very hard to say. One thing you could do is remind everyone that everyone must have fun, and if the power gamer(s) kill foes before other characters have a chance to react, then it is not fun for them. Another thing you could do is throw air born foes that use missle weapons, or situations which require skill checks and combat (so it is not totally about the big weapon), but such things have already been suggested here. It has been my experience that if you ask for a semi-detailed (within the limits of your campaign) character background before generating the character helps. Because considerate players will give rich backgrounds, and inconsiderate power gaming players will just give the minimal one or two lines. (Everyone please note, this is has just been my experience, I am not saying it works with everyperson !) Lastly, there are some interesting role playing tips offered on Johnn Four's roleplaying tips websight. Two articles that come to mind are: A bonus Experience point method by Charlie Bell (where the players can reward each other bonus XP for good roleplaying), and Re-educating The Power Gamer
by Joseph M. Young. I know people may not always agree...but some of these may prove effective for you.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

This was the characters second choice because I lowered the starting level. I know there are dozens of ways to challenge the character but it always puts all of the other characters at greater risk.

How can challenging this character, who is mechanically suboptimal and almost certainly dedicated to a single not-very-good schtick, 'putting the other characters at greater risk?'

How awful ARE the other characters?

Are we talking Ranger 1/Commoner 1/Wizard 1 here (no knock on rangers, but a 1-level dip in ranger is generally weak)?

4 kobold warrior 1s, 4 kobold rogue 1s. (CR 5)
Rogues deal with Mr. Deadly since he's (apparently) the greatest threat, while the other (presumably not-too-deadly) kobolds attack the rest of the party. Unless our brave boy is a fighter (in which case he's doing even less damage than his greatsword-wielding core barbarian rival), he CANNOT have Cleave at this level. If the kobolds attack him, he is GUARANTEED to suffer at least 4 possible sneak attacks. I find it wildly unlikely that he'll be able to hit the kobolds every round. Or are 9 kobolds too dangerous for your 3rd level PCs?

1 Well-equipped elite troglodyte (CR 2)
"Mr. Deadly" runs up against a troglodyte in banded mail with a large shield (AC 24). He needs a 20 to hit. Pity he lacks either Rage or Power Attack so that when he does hit he hits hard, because the thing's not all that tough - the party wizzy can kill it with a magic missile or two, or a scorching ray. Calling this cat CR 2 is a stretch.

 

[Timeron Malachi]

I like making fighters that take a single aspect of combat, and excel at it: Whether it's sundering and dealing damage, archery, AC, protecting other people, whatever. In doing that, most of my characters tend to get a very pointed focus towards one or two aspects of combat, mechanically.

I suppose that makes me a power-gamer. But, can I be a power-gamer and still have character history and plot? Still make choices that, while aren't that intelligent or tactically brilliant, make sense for the character?

The more a combat character chooses to focus on one aspect, such as just power-attacking or tripping or archery, the more they leave themselves open to attack on other fronts. I've always kept that in mind when I make characters. The DM tends to keep that in mind, also.

 

[Reynard]

I am just curious -- Have you been DMing 3.x for long? i only ask because, quite frankly, if weasling a 3d8 attack at 3rd level si the worst example of powergaming that you have encountered, you are a lucky man.

As much as I enjoy the storytelling and socialization aspects of D&D, it is still a game, and part of having fun playing a game is "winning". For a player who chooses a fighter or similar character, "winning" often means kicking butt in combat. And why not? There isn't anything wrong with one character being the Terminator of the group. in fact, it works really well when the party stumbles on to the BBEG and know they can't last long against him.

A problem only occurs if the character oversahdows the others, and that, I'm sorry to say, is entirely the DM's fault. If there isn't anything to the game outside of combat, then of course the combat monster is going to shine all the time. But the same can be said for the Rogue if there is nothing but traps, the cleric if there's nothing but undead, and so on. D&D has built in niche-protection and is designed for groups that cover a lot of bases, but characters that are fairly narrow. So adventures have to provide for every character's capabilities.

My advice is to take a look at your adventure design as it relates to your PCs. Is there enough non combat to keep the rest of the characters involved? Is there enough combat to make use of those 3d8? If the answers are both "yes" you really don't have a problem at all.

Of course, the last, best question is: is the rest of the group having fun?

 

[Mark Chance]

Hard to challenge without putting the other party members at undue risk? Nonsense.

"Ah, you must be the third-level, monkey-gripping, Huge-bastard-sword-wielding fellow I've been warned about. RAY OF ENFEEBLEMENT!"

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Hard to challenge without putting the other party members at undue risk? Nonsense.

"Ah, you must be the third-level, monkey-gripping, Huge-bastard-sword-wielding fellow I've been warned about. RAY OF ENFEEBLEMENT!"

Actually, I think the character's creator cast that on his PC when he created it with a combination of feats that start out fairly weak and just get worse with every level.

Also note that with 2 more points of base attack, they could have an absolutely equal attack bonus and the power attack user is doing 3.5 damage more on average. And the power attack guy doesn't get constant questions from barmaids and evil overlords as to whether he's compensating for something!

Yeah. But I was just making the comparison at 3rd level since that's where the 'problem' was.

 

[TheGM]

I despise powergamers as well.
I don't have fun when they are around.
And I know they wouldn't have fun in my games. In fact, I would guarantee it.

Funny, I actually tell people that when they express an interest in one of my games "The game system might be for you, but if you are a power gamer, my game is NOT for you.

Anyway, I can relate to the poster, it seems there are a lot more powergamers out there today than their used to be (not version relative except that 3E is played more, I think).

I've had to get forceful with people under several game systems, in situations like the one mentioned, I usuallly tell them straight-up "I'm not going to kill the rest of the party to give you a challenge, give me a break and go back to create a playable character. Spend that energy on developing who they are instead of how much damage they can dish out."

 

[Storyteller01]

Billd91,

I agree with what you are saying, but there are a lot of people in their 30's, 40's, 50's, etc... who are over the age of 18, but still have a long way to go to be adults. Unlike what most people seem to think, and they are often the over 18 but not an adult yet, 18 does not make someone an adult. Your behavior does.

Sorry to interject this, but adulthood/maturity is an issue in another thread I have been following, so it popped out at me in this thread too.

And not to bash the system too much, but it does seem to cater to this style of play...

MHO

 

[scourger]

I've always run a core game. I don't even allow prestige classes. There is really enough in the PHB for the players. I think you'll be happier if you similarly limit your game.