D&D 5E Power Level of "Raise Stat to 19" Items

[Saeviomagy]

There is really only one place where they break the game a bit: When a high dex melee character takes the high strength items. Then they get the double dip benefit of a high dexterity and strength.

What benefit are they double dipping on? They get to shore up their strength checks, carry capacity and strength save, and get a wider choice of backup weapons. Game broken? What?

Well, also if the character is built to rely upon having the item - a wizard with an 8 Intelligence that knows they'll get the Headband to get their 19 is a bit of a cheat as well...

The wizard with an 8 intelligence still has to live with an 8 intelligence for the time he doesn't have the headband, and he's going to be 1 point worse off than a wizard that hits 20.

Oh and his simulacra are going to be super lame.

 

[jgsugden]

What benefit are they double dipping on? They get to shore up their strength checks, carry capacity and strength save, and get a wider choice of backup weapons. Game broken? What?

2 handed weapons plus high dex bonuses for bows, initiative, perhaps AC. It is a bit like getting 33% extra point buy points. When a 12th level Fighter with a giant strength belt died in a game I was in, the replacement PC was a dex based paladin... For about 5 seconds until he took the belt that had been his prior PCs. It slipped right by the DM.

The wizard with an 8 intelligence still has to live with an 8 intelligence for the time he doesn't have the headband, and he's going to be 1 point worse off than a wizard that hits 20. Oh and his simulacra are going to be super lame.

Assuming he does not begin his career with the headband... a lot of PCs enter games above fifth level and a lot of those start with one or more uncommon items...

 

[S'mon]

Running a Pathfinder conversion I started using "+2" or "+4" stat items instead a la 3e/PF, cap at 20. This worked fine.

 

[CapnZapp]

Do you mean unable to buy magic items? That is one of the key things that broke 3E and 4E was easy access to magic items. Mostly due to how they interact with feats (or even ability scores in 5E).

The Gauntlets most do not matter, it +1 to hit and damage generally, +4 or so dfor classes where it won't matter that much. The con one is a lot better, the strength one is better for MAD type PCs such as Clerics and even then its mostly +2 to hit and damage on meh attacks anyway.

Its only really a problem if you know that you can buy items and build your PC accordingly (AL or knowledge of LMOP).

I am specifically talking about one thing only: the game supporting those DMs who run published adventures as is (with no or little downtime) and still want game rules that answer the question "what to do with all our gold?"

It's easy to conflate this with a lot of other stuff of 3E/d20 that I don't defend and don't want back.

What is needed is a robust utility-based magic item gold pricing mechanism. What you then use it for is up to you; it's not that this chapter magically appears in your core three books or that you are magically compelled to open up magic shoppes even if you don't want to.

Instead, those happy with 5e as-is can keep it that way (and can simply not buy this supplement).

Those who want balanced support for minimal choice (such as "our campaign begins at 5th level, you get items worth 5000 gp to start you off").

Those who want an uptime gold sink, like me, can offer a random/curated selection of items (using experience to avoid problematic items).

Those who want the full d20 gonzo style can accelerate item creation to d20 levels, allowing Wizards to create their own custom stuff and utterly break balance and go wild.

Under no circumstances does this mean the game goes back to assuming items or plusses per level, and it doesn't mean you're forced into any of this. It only means we get an alternative to this charade they call "rarity".

Everybody is happy.

Except those arguing I shouldn't get what I want simply so they don't have to say a simple no, but then again, those a-holes can go frack themselves.

Best regards

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[Fanaelialae]

The treadmill is one thing.

But losing that is no argument for throwing out any uptime gold outlet.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

Really? No gold outlet whatsoever? Then what the heck have I and my fellow DMs (at my table) been using?

In my highest level campaign the players found outlets for their gold. One of them built an orphanage. Another built himself a school where he could train aspiring fighters. And they both commissioned the dwarves to build them a mountain vault to hold all of their loot. That's on top of the occasional magic item that was periodically available for purchase.

In my friend's campaign, not only did I draw the Gem from the Deck of Many Things twice but we still got plenty of treasure on top of it. Even so, by the end of that campaign I wasn't able to afford an item that I really wanted (a one of a kind map showing the secret path to the moon). I spent it on building a temple for my deity, buying political favors, reinforcing our town's defenses, and on the occasional magic item when someone had something interesting for sale.

If you want to say that the guidelines in the DMG have room for improvement, I won't argue the point. If you're going to suggest that they are unusable or don't exist, I'm going to have to disagree based on personal experience.

 

[CapnZapp]

Really? No gold outlet whatsoever? Then what the heck have I and my fellow DMs (at my table) been using?

You're missing the word "uptime", so save your outrage for someone else.



Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[Zardnaar]

I am specifically talking about one thing only: the game supporting those DMs who run published adventures as is (with no or little downtime) and still want game rules that answer the question "what to do with all our gold?"

It's easy to conflate this with a lot of other stuff of 3E/d20 that I don't defend and don't want back.

What is needed is a robust utility-based magic item gold pricing mechanism. What you then use it for is up to you; it's not that this chapter magically appears in your core three books or that you are magically compelled to open up magic shoppes even if you don't want to.

Instead, those happy with 5e as-is can keep it that way (and can simply not buy this supplement).

Those who want balanced support for minimal choice (such as "our campaign begins at 5th level, you get items worth 5000 gp to start you off").

Those who want an uptime gold sink, like me, can offer a random/curated selection of items (using experience to avoid problematic items).

Those who want the full d20 gonzo style can accelerate item creation to d20 levels, allowing Wizards to create their own custom stuff and utterly break balance and go wild.

Under no circumstances does this mean the game goes back to assuming items or plusses per level, and it doesn't mean you're forced into any of this. It only means we get an alternative to this charade they call "rarity".

Everybody is happy.

Except those arguing I shouldn't get what I want simply so they don't have to say a simple no, but then again, those a-holes can go frack themselves.

Best regards

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

How is this different from a DM going "buy whatever you like as long as you can afford it".
\
They have never got magic item pricing right in D&D (3E, 4E, 5E rarity or even sell price in 1E).

 

[CapnZapp]

How is this different from a DM going "buy whatever you like as long as you can afford it".

You can't be serious?



Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[Fanaelialae]

You're missing the word "uptime", so save your outrage for someone else.



Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

Dude, no outrage here whatsoever. Perhaps a bit of incredulity.

We weren't using downtime rules so all of that was arranged during "uptime". I still remember roleplaying the scene where the monk was speaking to the mayor, getting permission for the orphanage (the mayor, of course, thought it was a fantastic idea).

Besides, I included the purchasing of select magic items which, unless I am mistaken, you seem to consider "uptime". We used the DMG guidelines, and the game didn't break.

I'm not saying you can't have your official rules or whatever. As we've discussed previously, to the best of my knowledge I hold no sway over what WotC does. But suggesting that what is in the DMG is unusable is inaccurate in my opinion.

 

[Dausuul]

Yeah, counting greatweapon wielders with Strength 8 is something we simply should not do.

Other than that, I would argue the Strength fighter getting a Dex item is worse.

A Dex fighter has everything he needs already; Strength gives him only relatively minor bonuses like Athletics.

A Strength fighter getting Dex... now that's different - she gets Initiative, Dex saves, and she can dump her heavy and unstealthy armor.

Getting Str as Dex is good, don't get me wrong... But the reverse is better

It's a moot point though, because there is no Dex item. The only "stat 19" items are Strength, Constitution, and Intelligence.