D&D 5E Prestige Classes and similar things

[the Jester]

I know that a lot of the design space that prestige classes, paragon paths, etc occupy in 3e & 4e is moving to feats for 5e, but has it been confirmed that there won't be prestige class-type things at all?

Do we know anything about this, yet? Anyone getting updated playtest docs willing to offer a wink wink nudge nudge?

 

[The Crimson Binome]

They've said that a lot of their design space for prestige classes and paragon paths have gone into sub-classes and feats, but so far we only have their word on that. Absence of evidence isn't necessarily evidence of absence, but I feel like they really would have said something by now if they were planning to go that route with such a major aspect of the game.

 

[Gadget]

I would just like to point out that the sub-classes design is likely to fill a lot of this space, in addition to feats. The trouble is that we haven't seen a lot of the subclasses, they have just been referred to a lot.

 

[Ichneumon]

A prestige class in Next would be a subclass that existed outside a class, or one that appeared in a class after the first subclass (e.g. 'archmage'). I remember multiclass subclasses being described by WotC in the past, though I don't know whether they've been kept around.

I'm also not sure whether prestige classes would be needed, with feats being what they are. A prestige class would have to deliver benefits at more than one level to make it worthwhile, which raises the question of whether a PC could benefit from more than one subclass at a time. My initial response would be to say no.

 

[GX.Sigma]

They've gone back and forth on it, but we haven't actually seen much either way. It seems now that if it's small enough to do with a feat, they'll do it with a feat (cf. arcane archer), but if it's big enough that it defines a character, they'll do it with a subclass.

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

It also should be noted that the system is flexible enough to allow for prestige class support, if you want to. Muticlass rules are strong enough to allow it, as I see. Third party publishers and DMs who like to homebrew should have no problem doing that.

 

[Li Shenron]

The concept of 3e prestige classes was built around requirements. You had to complete the mechanical requirements and (possibly) also some narrative requirements in order to enter a prestige class. Then, the prestige class worked like a regular class in the sense that it granted you a progression.

This makes it hard in 5e to use subclasses for the same purpose, because subclasses have a fixed level entry point (usually 2nd or 3rd level), which is actually very early on. How can you become a member of a "prestige" group so early? You have to get your subclass at that level, miss it, and your choice is over, unless you change how subclasses work (there's definitely a chance the Advanced game let you mix subclasses tho).

Furthermore, subclasses have no requirements, and it would be pretty hard to design a reasonably interesting set of requirements when you only have 1-2 levels to make sure you get them! (note that in those 2 levels you almost only choose skills and 1st level spells, but no feats and no higher level spells).

Because of these, feats (or feat chains, when one is too few) are actually a better system to represent 3e prestige classes in 5e. At least, you get multiple entry points at different levels (although not every level), thus you can define requirements better (including the minimum level if wanted), you don't have to tie them to specific classes, and you can design a whole feat chain to implement a progression into the prestige class.

But ultimately, for an even better representation of 3e prestige classes, 5e would need a new system, which can simply be... 3e-style prestige classes! It should not be hard at all to add to 5e, and with the new multiclassing rules about spellcasting, it should work much much better than in 3e. However, I don't see this coming until maybe a few years from now.

 

[Plaguescarred]

has it been confirmed that there won't be prestige class-type things at all?

IIRC Mike Mearls mentioned there'd be prestige class in L&L and on twitter

 

[Li Shenron]

IIRC Mike Mearls mentioned there'd be prestige class in L&L and on twitter

I seem to remember something like that, but wasn't it more than a year ago?

 

[Plaguescarred]

Probably, as i vaguely remember too ...