D&D 5E Prestige classes in Next?

[Grazzt]

They've said that they're not going to do splatbooks.

They will do splatbooks. Maybe not as many as 3.x had, but they will.

 

[CM]

I think there's a place for additional high-level backgrounds for prestige orders, but want them to be fairly sparse mechanically like the standard backgrounds. Boons and feats serve well enough for the major mechanics that prestige classes, paragon paths, and epic destines used to provide.

 

[Uder]

A good way to handle prestige classes might be to place them outside of the level structure and hook them into inspiration. For example, maybe you join as a role-playing opportunity presents itself, and the prestige class gives you a neat new way to spend inspiration.

 

[Thank Dog]

A good way to handle prestige classes might be to place them outside of the level structure and hook them into inspiration. For example, maybe you join as a role-playing opportunity presents itself, and the prestige class gives you a neat new way to spend inspiration.

I really like this. This would open up so many cool options.

 

[dd.stevenson]

I like the idea of giving mechanical benefits for campaign-specific accomplishments, and prestige classes were in theory supposed to be the mechanical hook to hang that particular hat on. Of course, it didn't often work out that way in practice, and I'm all for looking outside the class/level structure, going forward in 5E.

Something like backgrounds, perhaps, would be a better match. Something that overlays above the existing mechanics.

Edit: dang, just looked up and saw uder's post.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I had a thread a while ago about makeing prestige classes, butp it died lonely... I just got a PHB for my birthday, so maybe I will try again. I LIKE THE IDEA OF BUILDS AND DELAYED BENFITS

 

[Li Shenron]

So now that the 5e DMG is on the horizon, does anyone know if prestige classes are likely to be in there? Or are they going to be in 5e at all? Was there anything in any of the playtest packets like that, or in the development rumor mill?

Almost certainly PrCl won't be part of 5e, mainly because the designer think they can cover any character concept with feats and subclasses.

Truth is that concepts can of course be adequately covered by those, but still both feats and subclasses have structural limitations that can only be circumvented by prestige classes (or by ad-hoc class features replacements).

If not, given that 5e is far more similar to 3.x than it is to 4e, has anyone thought about house-ruling or building their own PrCs?

I have been converting 3e/d20 Rokugan material into 5e, and some 3e prestige classes cannot be converted into feats or subclasses without losing something, so I converted them into 5e prestige classes. They are only drafts at the moment, and I haven't published them on ENWorld because I still don't know if it's legit from point of view of intellectual properties and stuff.

 

[Li Shenron]

The only downside I see with Prestige Feats like this is that you have to wait up to four levels to take them. A prestige class could be entered with your next level if you qualify. I consider that a minor issue, though.

Yes, but it isn't a minor issue IMO: four levels is a long time in our games. Even if you play every weekend, it usually takes at least a few sessions to level up, then multiply by four... Speeding up XP and level advancement just because one player needs to get to the next feat would be ridiculous.

That's the principal benefit from using prestige classes: you can design them as a short number of consecutive levels.

(This doesn't mean that prestige classes should replace feats! Just that feats cannot cover all possibilities)

I really like the idea of prc's being replaced by new abilities that are like innate magic items. They are a clean, clear bonus you get exactly when and if the DM says you do. Like all magic items in 5e, you aren't entitled to them, you get them when the DM decided it is appropriate.

No, this achieves very different results, and adds on top of the character's power just like magic items. It can be a totally good idea on its own, but then the fundamental limit of this is that you need to do something similar to all PCs. So if one PC joins a prestige group and starts getting boons, eventually after a while you must either pushes the others to do the same or compensate them with more magic items, except that you can't force PCs to share magic items the way you want.

Prestige classes, subclasses and feats work within the structure of class progression, not "on top", therefore they are inherently balanced (unless of course you design benefits that aren't balanced in the first place).

The reason it failed is because they did not learn from 2e. Roleplaying requirements for classes or anything mechanical just doesn't work for balancing a it.

We need to think out-of-the-box and consider removing mechanical prerequisites completely.

All that matters mechanically is that the costs and benefits balance each other. The idea with prestige classes is to design a bunch of consecutive levels that would replace (or more properly displace) your base class levels, thus they should be worth the same as those levels. The difficulty is that level 3 is not worth the same as level 15, because higher-level features typically are more powerful. At least 5e doesn't have "dead levels" and has better multiclassing rules, and these should help. But why complicating design even further by introducing mechanical requirements which then needs to be taken into account as additional costs, and thus have prestige classes with higher costs that then needs better features?

Edit:

Because of this, the only truly useful mechanical requirement for prestige classes is LEVEL.

For some silly reasons, the 3e designers got into thinking that "level" was an inelegant requirement, and started a trend of never using it explicitly, but the truth is that they were always using it implicitly, just covering up with minumum BAB, ST or skill ranks. This trend was so powerful, that whenever 3rd-party designers dared publish a prestige class with explicit level requirement, they got flamed and labelled as "bad design".

In retrospective, this was really stupid and counterproductive! Character level is immediately clear, and simplify designs. You can then comfortably design a prestige class that immediately (at its 1st level) grants e.g. the ability to cast a spell of 5th level, by simply requiring minimum character level 9 to start taking levels in such class.

You can also call it suggested required level, when its features are not so clearly tied to level, to let the DM have an idea but still decide freely.

 

[Crothian]

We need to think out-of-the-box and consider removing mechanical prerequisites completely.

Who is we? I'm not a writer for Wizards and I don't think you are. We have no input on prestige classes at this point other then posting on boards and sending an e-mail. Those mostly get ignored though. I'd bet the decision on prestige classes is already made.

 

[SkidAce]

At this moment, I am going to use the framework provided by backgrounds, and create similar packages (some tools, minor mechanical, rp/society hook) and call them benefits.

I.e. your benefit from joining the "Order of the Eye", or becoming one of "Those who have Studied with the Hermit Lazorus".