Preview: The Sorcerer

[ThirdWizard]

This is weird... I thought that barbarian at-will with [W]+Str+1d6 damage or something was supposedly broken (why would your half-elf Str based char NOT take that as a dilletante power?), and I thought I read the designers commenting on how that (inputing striker extra damage directly on powers) was going to be revised due to multiclassing issues

People seem to be missing Draconic Power and Chaos Power. Add your Str mod or Dex mod to damage. Increase at 11th and 21st level. This is their "Curse"/"Sneak Attack"/"Quarry" except better. I don't know what's up with Dazzling Ray, but that's something else entirely.

 

[Cadfan]

A few other thoughts:

1. The sorcerer has the lowest starting AC in the game. The wizard is even better, because the wizard adds his primary ability score to AC. The sorcerer just gets to add his secondary. Take leather armor, or you start the game with an AC of 12 or 13. Not healthy if you've specialized in close burst powers.

2. I don't think this will overshadow the wizard. Its multiple target attacks are almost all very close range.

 

[Cadfan]

Reading this class has brought something to the front of my mind that has been percolating in the back for a long time.

I hate traditional D&D style arcane magic. Or at least, I hate certain assumptions in it.

The way I see traditional D&D arcane magic is this- spells are discrete objects that you can learn. A spellcaster can mix and match this repertoire of spells as he prefers. Knowing one spell doesn't help with knowing other similar spells, each one is a unique object. So, one spellcaster might know Scorching Burst, Invisibility, Ray of Frost, and Acid Orb. There's no connection between the items in this list, they're just all spells.

But I prefer theme.

I think its why I like the 4e warlock so much. It lets you create a spellcaster who has a particular style.

I think the biggest offender for me from the traditional arcane stylings is the mixing and matching of energy types. It just bugs the heck out of me to see a character themed after a red dragon descended sorcerer who possesses flame immunities and extra strong flame power but who still elects to breathe ice and lightning on people. If you're going to tell me that I can have a red dragon themed sorcerer, don't force me to adulterate him with random incorrect energy types!

This is probably the reason that I was so hopeful that wizards would have gotten the schools of wizardry they previewed, even if they were named things like Golden Wyvern Adept (do the people who whined about this name realize they doomed us all to adjective-verb-er naming structures?). It would have imposed some sense of theme and continuity to the wizard, instead of giving him a big, disparate list of spells. A wizard would have been able to specialize in, say, acid and cold, and would have had specific benefits to encourage a particular theme and style, much like the warlock's pact choices create a style. I would have liked that.

So... some of the sorcerer preview excites me. But I'm expecting to be ultimately disappointed, for the same reason that I'm ultimately disappointed in the wizard. It promises theme, and I bet its possible to create an actual, say, blue dragon themed sorcerer. But I bet that transfering your powers to all be lightning or theme-compatible non typed effects isn't going to be easy, and the natural tendency of the class will be for people to choose a dragon type, pay attention to it for the first few levels, and then promptly ignore it.

I guess if other people like it that's fine. I've still got the other power sources to enjoy. The Wizard, Swordmage, and to a lesser extent Sorcerer disappoint me with their old school themeless disparate-pile-o'-spells approach, but the classes from the Divine and Primal power source both use well themed magic. Shadow will probably make me happy as well, and Elemental might finally scratch my itch for the ability to create themed elemental magic using classes (or it might not, no guarantees they won't revert to type there). Psionics might work for me, but it didn't in 3e, so no guarantees either.

 

[Remathilis]

Cadfan, I'm sure as soon as Arcane Power comes out, there will be enough single-element powers to create more themed caster (there was a DDi article a while back around genasi swordmages that did that for swordmages; create a heroic-tier path for fire, ice and lightning-based swordmages).

 

[Rechan]

I think the biggest offender for me from the traditional arcane stylings is the mixing and matching of energy types. It just bugs the heck out of me to see a character themed after a red dragon descended sorcerer who possesses flame immunities and extra strong flame power but who still elects to breathe ice and lightning on people.

Of course that red dragon sorcerer is going to be ineffective against anything that has resistance to fire. Poison vs. Anything undead. Etc. So some sort of backup is nice.

Me, I think that "I'm dragon-themed, which means I use a color-coded energy scheme" is dumb. There's just more to a Red dragon than it's firey breath. It's got claws and teeth, wings, immense strength and personality. Why no Fear Aura-style spell? What about great rending claws as a physical attack? What about a roar that shatters things?

In fact, energy seems to be the one-stop shop when it comes to attack spells. It's like spellcasters thought "Well, if I can't scorch with it, zap with it, or freeze with it, then it's not a useful combat effect!" and stopped desinging the spell.

And with the Sorcerer all balls-to-the-wall energy types, what the hell is the Elemental power source going to do? They've all ready beat the Energy Type Drum hard, and the Warden beats the "Hey Look I like Earth" drum, so what's left?

Incidently, Cadfan, I found it rather easy to build a lightning-based Swordmage.

 

[webrunner]

Of course that red dragon sorcerer is going to be ineffective against anything that has resistance to fire. Poison vs. Anything undead. Etc. So some sort of backup is nice.

Me, I think that "I'm dragon-themed, which means I use a color-coded energy scheme" is dumb. There's just more to a Red dragon than it's firey breath. It's got claws and teeth, wings, immense strength and personality. Why no Fear Aura-style spell? What about great rending claws as a physical attack? What about a roar that shatters things?

In fact, energy seems to be the one-stop shop when it comes to attack spells. It's like spellcasters thought "Well, if I can't scorch with it, zap with it, or freeze with it, then it's not a useful combat effect!" and stopped desinging the spell.

And with the Sorcerer all balls-to-the-wall energy types, what the hell is the Elemental power source going to do? They've all ready beat the Energy Type Drum hard, and the Warden beats the "Hey Look I like Earth" drum, so what's left?

Incidently, Cadfan, I found it rather easy to build a lightning-based Swordmage.

Sorceror isn't really "dragon themed" in general, it's "Dragon MAGIC themed" which.. is magic. A real dragon themed class would be something like the Incarnum totemist with only dragon abilities.

As for Elemental, I think it'd be more like *being* or *using* the elements, instead of *shooting* the elements. An elemental striker would use stone-covered fists to pummel his opponents,. an elemental controller would probably be able to do things like flood a river to wash away their opposition, knocking them prone, etc.

To an arcane class, elements are ammuniton. To an elemental class, it might be more of a means to an end.

 

[Cadfan]

Of course that red dragon sorcerer is going to be ineffective against anything that has resistance to fire. Poison vs. Anything undead. Etc. So some sort of backup is nice.

Well, except for the ability to bypass energy damage resistance that's built right into the class.

Me, I think that "I'm dragon-themed, which means I use a color-coded energy scheme" is dumb. There's just more to a Red dragon than it's firey breath. It's got claws and teeth, wings, immense strength and personality. Why no Fear Aura-style spell? What about great rending claws as a physical attack? What about a roar that shatters things?

Great! Those things should be included too! Just don't have me select a dragon type, give me an energy resistance to that energy type, and then give me no mechanical incentive whatsoever to choose more than a trivial number of attacks that actually use the dragon theme that I selected. I'd rather you didn't give me a dragon type at all than to give me one and then promptly ignore it. Lets say I choose to base my dragon sorcerer off of green dragons. I get poison resist 5, which is nice but doesn't encourage the use of poison attacks. I get the ability to bypass up to 5 points of Resist Poison X, which helps, but really only removes the normal penalty of specialization.

What I do not get is even a single at will or encounter poison attack at level 1. By design, my green dragon themed dragon sorcerer with the special poison powers is going to be spending his time breathing fire and cold and lightning, whether I like it or not.

Even if I had chosen a more common dragon color, the basic problem remains. You spend a lot of your time outside of your theme. If that's going to happen, either change the theme, or don't give me a theme at all.

The best example of how to AVOID this flaw in a class is the warlock. Every warlock build has a lot going for it, but everything fits within the theme of the pact. No warlock is restricted to just powers from their pact, so the theme isn't mandatory, but its there. Contrast this with the "pick a suite of energy spells" design of the other arcane classes, and the difference should be clear.

I just really hate classes that boil down to "pick a suite of disparate spells with no thematic connection betwixt them." Hate, hate, hate. The energy type issue is just one way in which this surfaces.

 

[Scribble]

Eh... It's not bad, but I kind of agree it could have just been re-tooled as new warlock pacts. They probably just could have kicked the idea of an independant sorcerer to the curb this edition.

That said, it doesn't hurt to ahve other options.

I do question this though:

Chaos Burst: Your first attack roll during each of your turns determines a benefit you gain in that round. If you roll an even number, you gain a +1 bonus to AC until the start of your next turn. If you roll an odd number, you make a saving throw.

Against what?

 

[Rechan]

Against what?

Against any conditions you're suffering, I assume? Consider it like the Warden's Font of Life power.

Sorceror isn't really "dragon themed" in general, it's "Dragon MAGIC themed" which.. is magic.

So DRAGON MAGIC = "I shoot color coded energy"? I'd think that DRAGON MAGIC would have a bit more variety.

Well, except for the ability to bypass energy damage resistance that's built right into the class.

DOH. Good point. I totally forgot about that.

Although it does cause the hairy situation of Green dragon vs. Undead, since Undead are immune to poison, but then that's a corner case.

No warlock is restricted to just powers from their pact, so the theme isn't mandatory, but its there.

The thing I like about the Warlock is that the thematic elements aren't tied to the mechanics. You could be a Feylock, and while you picked up a Starpact power, you can easily just change the fluff and it fits your theme.

 

[Mengu]

Some random thoughts:

I rather dislike some of the random wild abilities, namely Chaos Burst and Wild Soul. They introduce one more complexity to resolve, are extra bookkeeping for the player between and during encounters. They are poorly designed for fast playm and for the tactically oriented player (though the latter may not be a problem, since they can simply pick a different build or class).


For instance, crazy things happen when you roll a 20 with Chaos Bolt. You maximize your damage, you resolve the critical effect on your implement, you ignore some psychic resistance if you happen to have psychic resistance for the encounter, you resolve any critical effects from feats, you gain a +1 AC from Chaos Burst, you slide the target 1 square and knock it prone from Unfettered Power, and you make a secondary attack. What are the odds you’ll forget to do one of these because they are not written in the same place?


Instead of giving the class the random +1 AC and random save, I’d just give them a flat +1 AC vs. ranged and ranged area attacks (call it entropic shield), and give them a power that lets them make a saving throw as a minor action twice per encounter. These abilities would be much easier to build into the character sheet and to keep track of, and from a tactical standpoint, you'd get to use them when you want to instead of at a random time.

But I’m sure many others prefer the random nature of things, which the class provides for them. I already think combat takes way too long, so I rather frown upon introducing more fidgety bits.

I rather like the Dragon Sorcerer build. But did they really need another reason to make Dragonborns the premier race for a class build? (Begin singing "Anything you can do I can do better.") Fortunately I can think of some Tiefling, Half-elf, and Human builds that would also be interesting, so I'm happy about that.

For the Chaos Sorcerer build, Halfling and Drow jump out as great picks. Chaos Bolt is a fantastic power, dishing out around 1d10+8 damage to a primary target, and around 1d6+4 damage to secondary targets. The way it's currently published, it doesn't even look like you need to hit to generate the secondary hit, just roll an even number, so half the time you'll be generating those secondary hits. Chaos Bolt is definitely the most potent at-will power for the Chaos build. Storm Walk would be another great power for this rather fragile build, as it lets you get away from melee before you attack, and you get to move to a safer place afterwords.

Much like the Wizard, I think the first feat will typically be dedicated to leather armor. Also any Dragon Sorcerer is likely to pick up light shield at some point for the +1 AC and Reflex, covering two weak defenses at once, with no skill check penalty. This of course also means they will typically be using daggers as implements.

I think their resilience to the elements is great boon to their defenses. A Tiefling could easily be resistant to 2 elements (3 if they are from FR). Scales of the Dragon can't be ignored either.

There are numerous enjoyable features and powers for the Sorcerer. But the Chaos Sorcerer is definitely not a newbie friendly build. I can easily see some memory issues with what did I roll last turn? Even or Odd? What was my resistance again during the last short rest? The Archer Ranger still holds the torch for easiest to play class, hands down.