prices getting a little nuts?

[Dustin Clingman]

The solution to this guys is to get more people playing games. The reason the core D&D books are relavitely cheap is because they have much more money and expect to sell more than a million of them.

Your average d20 books probably doesn't sell much more than 2000-2500 copies. Part of that might be the numerous choices. Another part might be the people who just never buy books because they think they are too expensive.

The interesting side effect of this is that because the books are lower quality, people buy fewer of them and it causes an increase in price or a drop in quality.

Get more people into the hobby and over time, the products will settle down in price.

Dustin

 

[monkius]

Colonel, how long ago was the first edition of ghostbusters? Right, then you could produce products for $20, now it would cost almost double...

I guess my naive question would be why would it cost almost double today? I don't have a copy of the original ghostbusters, but here are some questions:

1) was it hardcover?
2) was it full color throughout?
3) was it 300-500 pages?
4) did it have lots of high quality custom artwork?

My guess is that the answer to a lot of those questions would be no. Looking back at many of my older books, the answer to most of those questions is definitely no.

Now is it nicer if a book has one or more of those options? Yes. Does it also increase the cost, yes.

Imagine if you went to buy a car at the car dealership, and that you find the car you wanted. But then you discover that they only sold it with every option built in (GPS navigation, DVD with LCD screens, and gold cup holders). While any one of those options may be nice, altogether they may make the price more than you were willing to spend.

Will the car dealership sell some of those fully-optioned cars? Sure. Will it sell as many as it would if it had some without all of the options? Probably not . . .

I used to be big into GURPS and have lots of the books. Looking at their recent price list, I see a lot of $19.95 and $22.95 for most of the expansion books. The hardcover rules book is $29.95. So it seems possibly to make books for under $45.

Another example is Arcana Unearthed. The rulebook cost $29.95. The Diamond Throne sourcebook is $18.95. I ended up buying the rulebook, the rulebook pdfs, and the Diamond Throne pdf. If Arcana Unearthed cost $48.90 because it put the whole rule book and the source book into one big book, I may not have bought it.

I think the problem is that a lot of books are putting everything and the kitchen sink in. A single book that acts as both the players handbook and the dm's guide is nice. It also can get expensive. Taking the example of the $40 LOTR RPG game above, if the players could have bought a $20 players handbook, I bet they would have. Instead of the company selling 1 $40 book, they could have sold 2x$20 books to the DM and ?x$20 books to the players...

 

[DaveMage]

I wish prices were lower only so I could have more d20 materials than I do now. To me, our hobby is the epitome of creativity, and each work that's produced is a tribute to imagination.

While there are a few rare exceptions to the above, I find that the RPG products I buy are always worth the price whether I use them "in game", as an idea generator, or just a good read.

That said, however, I think publishers should charge as much as make sense for them to stay in business (and earn a nice profit so they can write more).

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Colonel, how long ago was the first edition of ghostbusters? Right, then you could produce products for $20, now it would cost almost double...

Hey, you know what? It was only 1984, not the Old West . The $12 I paid for that boxed game wasn't anywhere near as painful as the $40 and $50 hit some games would make on my wallet today. $12 didn't feel expensive then, and it's not expensive now. $40 and $50 felt expensive then and now. I doubt that Ghostbusters would be produced the same way now as it was then - now, it would be made as a big, thick, pretty hardback instead of a light boxed set. I don't need or want hardbacks, 250-500 pages, full color, and glossy paper in or on my game books, if all of those things make it impossible for me to get a group together because the group, as whole, refuses to pay that much for a game, and/or makes it so that the book wears out more quickly and is less easy to replace.

Yeah, one of those big hardbacks might look pretty on the bookshelf, but RPGs are a social endeavor - if I don't have players, a book that expensive is worse than useless. First, it's a pain in the butt to pass the one copy of the rules around, and increases the wear and tear on the big, pretty book. Second, it takes up money and space I could have spent on something which I can find players for. Third, much of the stuff that makes the book so expensive - hardback, glossy pages, useless filler material - makes the book less utilitarian, less able to stand up to constant use.

 

[Mark]

Welcome to the boards, Vascant!

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I guess my naive question would be why would it cost almost double today? I don't have a copy of the original ghostbusters, but here are some questions:

1) was it hardcover?
2) was it full color throughout?
3) was it 300-500 pages?
4) did it have lots of high quality custom artwork?...

The answers to all the questions is "no." Well, except for 4; there is a lot of B&W line art and B&W photos illustrating the game. However, none of it is anywhere near the quality of many of today's games, like, say Urban Arcana or Farscape.

I think the problem is that a lot of books are putting everything and the kitchen sink in.

Yes! Exactly! People can't stick in a toe just to see if they like a game or not; they have to do a cannonball off the high-dive!

A single book that acts as both the players handbook and the dm's guide is nice. It also can get expensive. Taking the example of the $40 LOTR RPG game above, if the players could have bought a $20 players handbook, I bet they would have.

Yes, that would be a smart bet.

 

[trancejeremy]

Also bear in mind, the company that made the Ghostbusters RPG is more or less out of business. (They sold out to a French company, and now they have 1 employee left)

 

[Staffan]

Hey, you know what? It was only 1984, not the Old West .

Inflation over the last 20 years has been pretty high. I haven't seen any MSRP figure for the Ghostbusters RPG, but the figure $20 has been thrown around (if not for Ghostbusters, it seems pretty common for "pricey" gaming stuff back then). According to the inflation calculator at http://www.bls.gov/cpi/ , something that cost $20 in 1984 ought to cost $35 in 2003. Considering the average increase in production values since then (compare the 1e PHB to the 3e PHB for example), I'd say games have kept up their price-to-value factor pretty well.

 

[gariig]

Ok, buying a $12 book in 1984 is like buying a $21 book today(asuming 3% inflation a year). Now the equivalent of buying a $50 book today is about 28.50 then. Not so bad when you think of it, just realize things get more expensive as time progresses.

However, I agree that $40-$50 is a lot for a casual buy while 20-25 is easier to swallow. However, the books are usually a steal as far as value for money.

Gariig

Maybe my numbers for inflation are wrong, but for accounting 3% is pretty much right on.

 

[BSF]

I don't see the real problem being whether the cost is justified. There are certainly some nice books out there and they are a worth the higher cost. There are also bad, inexpensive books that are still a waste of money.

I play with two groups. Between the dozen or so gamers that are included in those groups, I can only say that there are 2 of us that own the FR campaign book. There are 3-4 of us that own Magic of Faerun. If those books were less expensive, more people would own them. Not because they aren't worth the price, but because they are more accessible.

That isn't a reflection on the quality of the books. Nor is it a reflection on the justification for the cost. It has more to do with personal economics. $20 for a book is not a hard cost to justify. $30 starts to make you think. $50 and you tend to really wonder about how often you will get to use the book. I would rather buy 2 $24.95 books than 1 $50.00 book. It might be a little tougher market right now and that is a shame. But, so long as economics indicate that a hefty, full color, hardcover makes better sense to publish for certain types of books, then that is what the Publishers will (and should!) be doing.