Primal Power Discussion

[Rechan]

The Primal Spirits section was the second section I read (after feats).

To an extent I liked it, albeit it doesn't fit my taste in spirits to a T - it goes out of its way to spell out that Spirits are not gods, they do not expect worship, they simply Are. Whereas I, coming from Exalted (where all spirits are basically gods, whose power is represented by worship) don't feel it. But I can reconcile this by saying the Elder spirits have the zen Being thing going, while spirits of lesser power (such as local spirits) are more about power, tribute and worship.

I liked that each class got a nice two page spread of fluff.

A player of mine who was interested in the Thunderborn class feature was rather irritated that every single one of the Thunderborn specific powers was "Make an attack, then make a close blast 3 attack where you yell". No variety, more controller than striker.

I only looked at the first seven levels of the Barb, but the whirling barbarian powers looked pretty different compared to the Ranger's dual wiedling powers. Even between strikers, they can be a little varied.

The World Speaker Shaman build feels lame. The power class's feature doesn't have a nice zing to it. However, the encounter powers are pretty nifty.

- There seem to be a lot of new Rage powers that feel less "magical" as some of the PHB 2. (Essentially, a lot without any energy keywords, psychic or fear). So anyone that prefer a more "martial" flavor to their Barbarian, there it is.

I noticed this too.

 

[yesnomu]

Beastform-only druids are still pants at their job. PP has few beastform powers in general, and even fewer have real controlling/debuffing effects. Tellingly, there's no new BF level 29 daily. However, their new at-will is pretty nice.

Eagle Shamans are really cool--now Shamans don't have to suck just because there's only one other melee character. They give out basic attacks like Halloween candy!

 

[Felon]

Ah, I see, nobody cares about Primal Power.

That's how it goes these days. By the time a book actually gets released, it's old hat. All the really hot discussions take place a month or two before it's actually available.

Anyway, I bought it because it had a gold-box discount at Amazon, and because everyone else in my group has eschewed the primal classes. Classes that others shun offer a certain appeal, like I can carve out my own territory.

The whirling barb looks neat. I'm not sure if the package of abilities it gets is excessive compared to what the PHB2 barb's get, but it doesn't seem worth banning, unlike some of the other splatbook stuff I've seen (e.g. the temp HP monster fighter, the cleric trading Turn Undead for a group heal). I was hoping to see that barb get some ranged powers, but I guess Hurl Weapon will have to do.

I don't get why folks assert that letting a barb use their Con for AC will "turn their AC from bad to incredible". Barbs previously used their third-best stat for AC bonus, now they'll use their second-best. Shouldn't be a huge leap.

 

[Rechan]

but it doesn't seem worth banning, unlike some of the other splatbook stuff I've seen (e.g. the temp HP monster fighter)

That got erratad, in case you didn't know.

I don't get why folks assert that letting a barb use their Con for AC will "turn their AC from bad to incredible". Barbs previously used their third-best stat for AC bonus, now they'll use their second-best. Shouldn't be a huge leap.

The issue is that some people think that the barbarian should be naked, in terms of AC.

The problem however is that since the barbarian is all about charging into the middle of melee (literally), and a lot of his powers deal with granting him more speed, more distance - he can get surrounded by enemies and separated very fast. If your healer is in medium armor, then he's moving at 5, which means that your barbarian is going to get severely injured on a regular basis. A medium AC prevents some of this pain. (I say this because this is the situation in a game I'm the leader ).

 

[MrMyth]

More of an issue is that the Barbarian already has a number of defensive things to compensate for a low AC (high HP, readily available con-based temps, and a free class AC bonus.) Letting them suddenly have a key stat feeding into defense means they become more defensive than many other classes that don't have such protection.

Also, Felon - going from a tertiary stat to a secondary stat is an enormous difference. Remember that you will generally have two main stats throughout your career, because the stat bumps at 4, 8, etc, apply to two stats, and so it is usually effective to choose two stats to focus on. Splitting up your stat bumps to enhance three stats usually only happens when you have feat prereqs to worry about, or similar situations. There are certainly many characters who will split up where their stat bumps go - but many others will keep them focused, and being able to rely on a secondary stat for defense (instead of a tertiary stat) will make a huge difference.

 

[crash_beedo]

I was unmoved by the Primal Classes in the PHB2. The huge amount of fluff that came in Primal Power (2 pages for each class and the pages on primal spirits) really helped place them. Good job WOTC dudes.

 

[Akaiku]

I don't get why folks assert that letting a barb use their Con for AC will "turn their AC from bad to incredible". Barbs previously used their third-best stat for AC bonus, now they'll use their second-best. Shouldn't be a huge leap.

That one feat raises my camp's 17th level barbarian's ac by 5. The epic one that stacks raises it by 2 more.

That's a giant move. His ac will be defender levels, plus defender hp. But doing striker damage.

 

[yesnomu]

Yeah, like with any * Power book, there's some badly edited stuff (Hide Expertise, Targeted Assault table vs. text [apparently table is correct, per Mike Donais on the CharOp boards], Sudden Call, Protective Roots). But a lot of cool, flavorful stuff too.

It's probably just my predilection for the primal classes, but this is my favorite Power yet.

 

[Rechan]

That's a giant move. His ac will be defender levels, plus defender hp. But doing striker damage.

Be aware he has defender HP not because he's a barbarian, but because he's a primal class. ALL Primal classes get a boost in their HP, period.

So to me it's less like "We need to make the barbarian more durable" and more like "We need to give this divine class a Channel Divinity power".

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Ah, I see, nobody cares about Primal Power.

You'd probably have better luck trying it in the 4e forums ;p