Prismatic Sphere at 12th Level!??!?!?

[ashockney]

12th level for the PC's.

Prismatic Sphere for the bad guy.

The bad guy is fighting the PC's.

Prismatic Sphere at 12th level???!?!?

So, anyway, here's the kind of thing I would do:

If this were a creature in one of my campaigns, I would ratchet up the HD from 15 to 30 (220 hp), bump up the attack routine, etc, accordingly, using the advancement guidelines. I would then pop the DR up to 20/+4 and the SR up to 30 (they don't have good guidelines for how to handle DR and SR advancement, even though they're important). I would then be more comfortable calling this thing a CR 16 or CR 17 with it's spells and abilities in tact. It also has a chance (albeit somewhat small with a 15 AC) of surviving more than a round with 220 hp and some spellcasting abilities. Strong emphasis here on "defensive spells" to keep the party off of it long enough to do some damage.

Your thoughts?

 

[apsuman]

<whoops, posted a repy to the wonrg thread>

I don't want to defend the CR system. But I want to weigh in...

It could be a typo.

Also, CR can be a measure of challenge for parites above level 12. For example, when determining experience, a party of four level 15 characters against this creature would be going up a CR 12 (read easy challenge). So, this creature might break the CR system for levels less than 13 or so but is not really a challenge above that level.

g!

 

[mkletch]

Sounds like you need PGA - Powergamers Anonymous.

-Fletch!

 

[hammymchamham]

Don't weirds not fight to the death? So most likely it gets a couple spells off, then runs. And I think they can control nearby Elementals, so if their are any, it takes control of them and runs.

I guess if the DM wants to run this monster as if it fights to the death, than yeah, it might just TPK a 12th level group. But if the DM does as the description says, it might provide a scare. Genearlly, I don't see weirds as the instigator of a fight. So if the PC's pick a fight, they better be willing to face the consequences.

 

[thundershot]

What exactly is 25% of a party's resources. Too tough to calculate (25% of top-end magical weapons sundered?). But the

25% of the party's resources? In a typical 4 PC party, that's one character. So a challenge rating 12 creature should be able to take on a party of 4 12th level characters, and be able to off one of them.

Kidding.. kidding.. Unless you're a killer DM.



Chris

 

[mkletch]

25% of the party's resources? In a typical 4 PC party, that's one character. So a challenge rating 12 creature should be able to take on a party of 4 12th level characters, and be able to off one of them.

Well, you can slice and dice the 25% any way you'd like...pun intended.

-Fletch!

 

[AuraSeer]

Don't weirds not fight to the death? So most likely it gets a couple spells off, then runs. And I think they can control nearby Elementals, so if their are any, it takes control of them and runs.

The problem is that one or two high-level spells can TPK a mid-level party.

One example that comes easily to mind is Fire Storm. At 18th caster level, it encompasses thirty-six 10'-cubes, and does 18d6 damage to everyone in the area. Failing the save gets you an average of 63 points of damage, which is probably enough to kill the mage right there. (A Wiz12 with Con 12 could have at most 60 hit points. Very few characters roll max hp for every level.) Two castings could easily kill a whole party, or leave one fighter-type alone and heavily wounded.

 

[Pax]

One example that comes easily to mind is Fire Storm. At 18th caster level, it encompasses thirty-six 10'-cubes, and does 18d6 damage to everyone in the area. Failing the save gets you an average of 63 points of damage, which is probably enough to kill the mage right there. (A Wiz12 with Con 12 could have at most 60 hit points. Very few characters roll max hp for every level.) Two castings could easily kill a whole party, or leave one fighter-type alone and heavily wounded.

Any wizard lacking an appropriately-worded Contingency (Fireshield) spell who dies to fire damage, DESERVES to die to fire damage.

What do I mean by properly worded?

"Whenever a [Fire]- or [Cold]-type damage source affects me nonbeneficially, activate [FireShield] with the opposite descriptor."

Specifically, Fire Shield, at point of casting, can be chosen to have a [Cold] or [Fire] descriptor, and thus, protects against damage with the opposed descriptor. Thus, that FireStorm triggers an instantaneous FireShield[Cold] spell, which halves the damage before the save is made; with a successful saving throw, IIRC, a net of 1/4 damage is taken. Most 11th+ level mages shuld be able to handle 15hp of damage, though they'll "feel the burn" for some time afterwards, ofc.

Now granted, the wording above is more a metagame function, but if you REALLY wanted to, I could schlock a pseudo-Wzbabble spiel that amounts to the same thing. The long and short of it is, if the Wizard gets whacked with damage that is fire- or cold-based, the fireshield activates, in a manner best suited to protect against that elemental-based damage.

 

[green slime]

Fletch posted:
Since a CR 12 creature is an applicable boss monster for a party of four 7-8th level characters, I have a lot lf trouble seeing those 7th or 8th level characters burning through a prismatic sphere with their non-existent cone of cold, disintegrate and passwall. Also, Elemental Swarm summons huge and greater elementals. Will an 8th level party have the +2 weapons necessary to damage them? Probably not.

Look at the larger picture: they cast spells as 18th level sorcerers. How about if this thing gates in a Balor, Pit Fiend or Solar. Meteor Swarm, anyone? WAIL OF THE BANSHEE with a Fort save DC of 25! TPK for even 9th level party, close for 10th. This thing should have a CR of at least 15 or 16.

A party of 7th to 8th level characters does not "happen" across a fire wierd. If they do, they die. A DM controls whether the Wierd casts the Prismatic Sphere, and whether the PCs have the resources to deal with it. BTW Casting the sphere does not spell auto-death for the party, just makes killing the creature more difficult.

A well-equipped, well-prepared party, should be able to give the creature a run for its money.

Looking at what was declared by ashockney (MM2 has yet to reach these far and distant shores), I can only conclude that:

It doesn't have access to ALL divine and arcane spells, casting them as a sorcerer, it casts spells with the fire sub-type.

Any party with a decent glimmer of intelligence will ensure some divine backing in the form of LOTS of protection from fire potions/scrolls/shields, whatever. Then, with the judicial application of greater magical weapon, +2 weapons are not a problem.

Clerics with the Fire or Water domain can attempt to turn/rebuke creatures with the Fire subtype.

Sounds like the creature isn't such a terrible threat to world peace, and probably not to a 12th level party, either. It is too predictable, with all that fire damage being hurled around.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

A party of 7th to 8th level characters does not "happen" across a fire wierd. If they do, they die. A DM controls whether the Wierd casts the Prismatic Sphere, and whether the PCs have the resources to deal with it. BTW Casting the sphere does not spell auto-death for the party, just makes killing the creature more difficult.

True. Also, it would not attack on sight. Weirds are oracles, and they depend on their "customers" to be alive in order to tell them what will happen.

A well-equipped, well-prepared party, should be able to give the creature a run for its money.

Looking at what was declared by ashockney (MM2 has yet to reach these far and distant shores), I can only conclude that:

It doesn't have access to ALL divine and arcane spells, casting them as a sorcerer, it casts spells with the fire sub-type.

Yes. So no wail of the banshee for that one.

Any party with a decent glimmer of intelligence will ensure some divine backing in the form of LOTS of protection from fire potions/scrolls/shields, whatever. Then, with the judicial application of greater magical weapon, +2 weapons are not a problem.

Also, +2 Weapons are normal gear for a 12th-level Party, and I think an 8th-level Fighter will have one, too. At least if the DM adhers to the guidelines of PC power in the DMG. If not, he won't bring in enemies with such DR and SR values (unless he wants the players to run away from it. And even then, he'll not start with the kill-all-spells)

Clerics with the Fire or Water domain can attempt to turn/rebuke creatures with the Fire subtype.

Sounds like the creature isn't such a terrible threat to world peace, and probably not to a 12th level party, either. It is too predictable, with all that fire damage being hurled around.