Problem needs Advice

[Wyvernhand]

Execute the player, publicly if possible. Hang his corpse from a high place in a busy area. Brand the body as possible with a clearly readable message so that he serves as a reminder to all that that behavior will not be tolerated.

Or just talk to the player, call him out on his douchebaggery, and if he doesn't apologize and change adequately, kick him out. Or exectute him...either works.

 

[iamtheend]

The DM we have is having his first time and isn't the one that slaughtered us all. Main point about all of this is that it seems he feels dependent on the player who maybe cheating. So if conflict happens and he leaves then we might not play at all.

Example of how the rules are all loosey goosey with this "experienced player" he had a Longbow that was also a quarterstaff which is okay with me and I know it exists and I think its a cool weapon. He then while being threatened makes a ranged attack. I bring up that he is invoking an AOO from the enemy right in front of him. He insists that since the bow is also a quarterstaff he doesn't. I look at the DM and he has absolutely nothing to say about it and leave it at that.

If I can have a strong party to stay alive and have fun then that's okay with me. Aside from the DM might having to make things harder for those who are not cheating I am mostly upset that he is thinking he can get away with it and knowingly taking advantage of the DMs trust.

I always consider maybe I am the one with the misunderstanding though. Just when I casually ask to know more about his character he tells me that my character doesn't know the details of him as if its protecting the spirit of the game.

I don't want to be some douchebag that goes on a crusade to prove he is wrong and assert that he plays correctly OR ELSE but I don't want him to continue going crazy. I think I'm going to talk to the DM one more time and if I don't feel satisfied call the player out right before we start playing to put him in the hot seat.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

If the DM feels dependent on a player then he really needs to get his stuff together and properly be a Master.

And the player is most definitely cheating on the whole quarterstaff/longbow thing, and plenty of other stuff too. It is EITHER of them, not both. If he's using it as a longbow, he gets all the penalties and bonuses for it.

Remind your DM that even if you guys are having fun, cheating is putting others in the group down.

 

[TheEvil]

If the DM feels dependent on a player then he really needs to get his stuff together and properly be a Master.

And the player is most definitely cheating on the whole quarterstaff/longbow thing, and plenty of other stuff too. It is EITHER of them, not both. If he's using it as a longbow, he gets all the penalties and bonuses for it.

Remind your DM that even if you guys are having fun, cheating is putting others in the group down.

The Longbow/Quarterstaff is an Elvencraft bow from Races of the Wild (3.5 Edition Book). It can be used freely as both a longbow and a quarterstaff in the same round without penalty and costs 300 gp more then a normal bow. It says NOTHING about not drawing AoOs when used as a ranged weapon and trying to read it this ways feels like someone who either doesn't understand the rules are or is basically a cheater. A GM who is not calling him on it either also doesn't understand the rules or is playing favorites.

I personally can't stand cheaters or GM favoritism and generally bow out when I discover either. I have played in games where the GM was less concerned about the Rules and more concerned about how the story ran, but this doesn't sound like that kind of situation.

As far as what to do about it, you have talked to the GM and he has said he will take some steps. See how things go. Bearing in mind that there are some alternate rules out there that allow some pretty far out stuff (esp. in Dragon Magazine), it is possible he isn't cheating, though it does sound like he is playing fast and loose with the rules at best. If things don't get better and the GM does not seem responsive to further action, you need to decide if you can enjoy playing the game as it stands or you can't. You will make yourself miserable and look like a jerk if you keep bringing the issue up, no matter how correct you may be. If the story is good enough, stick with it, in time the GM should improve his knowledge of the rules. There will always be time later to quit a game you aren't enjoying.

 

[Belzbet]

Considering that many others have suggested things I will suggest soemthing alittle different:

If this problem player was the DM then his rules would be house rules and you couldnt really say anything about it... SO, TAKE advantage of the 'new' rules that this player has been using... As for taking PrC's without the prereqs and stuff like that i dont know what to say (thats pretty bold). But hey use that bow staff yourself... this may not be desirable and it may create more problems than not but hey if you cant fight them join them (I dont know to what extent this PC is cheating and what new rules he is placing). I am sure though that after you r tlk with the DM things will change (at least the prereq thing will change, presumably).

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

The DM we have is having his first time and isn't the one that slaughtered us all. Main point about all of this is that it seems he feels dependent on the player who maybe cheating. So if conflict happens and he leaves then we might not play at all.

A player who knows the rules is an fantastic resource, but not when he's using them to bend the system. That's just selfish, and isn't helping his DM or the other players learn how to play. That won't help any of them down the line if they ever play with people who don't routinely cheat.

(And fwiw, it's possible to slowly learn the game without anyone experienced at the table. Just pick a couple relevant rules to focus on each session-- eg, grappling or smashing objects or dealing with weather-- and let the rest of the rules slide. Eventually you'll have practiced most everything, and more important, you'll have an idea how to "guess" at the rules and come pretty close to a fair ruling, as well as just know where everything is in the book.)

Good luck with it, though.

 

[Dross]

Example of how the rules are all loosey goosey with this "experienced player" he had a Longbow that was also a quarterstaff which is okay with me and I know it exists and I think its a cool weapon. He then while being threatened makes a ranged attack. I bring up that he is invoking an AOO from the enemy right in front of him. He insists that since the bow is also a quarterstaff he doesn't. I look at the DM and he has absolutely nothing to say about it and leave it at that.

While confrontational (and probably not a valid argument anyway):
If being used as a bow doesn't activate AoO because it is also a staff,
then when used as a staff it is also a bow so it does activate AoO at this time.

Really, unless the description of the bow-staff says it negates the AoO the normal rules for shooting within melee reach apply.

Maybe have the DM ask the player to show where it says that AoO does not occur.

Talk with the DM and see if you can get them to ask the player: Where does it say that? Have it be treated like a learning experience.

Also, if the DM has copies of the PCs, maybe file the serial numbers of and use them against the PCs and see what occurs. The lesser of two evils is that he just does not understand the rules (the other is that he is using/ignoring them for his own powertrip).

You should also either limit the books/sources allowed, or if the DM does not have access to a source but allows it, have the player provide a copy of the powers he is using.

 

[Greenfield]

If he had thrown the quarterstaff, it still would have provoked. If he had held the staff in one hand and fired a crossbow with the other, it would have provoked.

Call him on his BS, or let it go.

 

[jasper]

.... So if conflict happens and he leaves then we might not play at all.

...I am mostly upset that he is thinking he can get away with it and knowingly taking advantage of the DMs trust.

..I don't want to be some douchebag ..I think I'm going to talk to the DM one more time and if I don't feel satisfied call the player out right before we start playing to put him in the hot seat.

You have basically admitted you rather play with douchbag than not play. Sorry. But gaming does not mean you have to play with goobers. And if you are so addicted to D&D that you are willing to play with goobers get some help.
I used to play with goobers a lot in my teens, 20s. Around my 30s I decided not play with a goober unless the other 9/10ths of table mates made up for the goober. And I have played less and less as the years went on. But the few games I have sat in on have been much better.
or to put it in a live xbox way. Block /mute the goober and play on.

 

[Blackened25]

As someone who's ran games for a good number of years, I thought I'd chime in.
An inexperienced DM who leans heavily on another player isn't ever going to get the respect they deserve at the table, or ever truly feel like they're running their own game. So first order of business, is for the DM to learn his craft. He needs to hit the PHB and DMG, and understand the basics. Once he understands somewhat of what he's doing, it's time for a new basic game. I'd say only allow core books, and ideally just the handbook classes and feats. An inexperienced DM doesn't need to be dealing with advanced rules like Gestalts, or searching through 4 million different sourcebooks looking for an obscure feat.
What's needed is a simple, basic game that your DM can run and gain confidence in over time. He should keep homebrew stuff out of the game entirely, until he reaches a point where he can properly evaluate it's impact on the game. It's ultimately his say on what characters bring in, so he needs to learn to say no. Above all, both players and DM need to have patience. DM'ing a game is an art form, and it's not learned overnight.

If your DM is unwilling to put the time in to be able to properly run his own game, then there's not really much hope for him as a DM, and someone with enough backbone and confidence to say no to rules-lawyerish cheaty players should run. It sucks to have players in a group that you have to watch like a hawk, but sometimes you just have to go with who you have and try to make the best of it.

As a player, confronting another player about their cheating is almost never a good idea, and accomplishes nothing but raising tempers. Normally, I'd say let the DM handle it, as it's not a player's job to police the table. It's a good practice for a DM to look over everyone's sheet at least once a game, and asking for everyone's sheets to be left with him after games so he can look them over at his leisure between games is generally a good idea. However, if your DM is unwilling to do anything about it, then you're left with the choice of ignoring it and trying to have fun, or finding a new group to play with.
Good luck with whatever your group decides to do.