Problematic player -- HELP!

[pogre]

You have already received some excellent advice here.

Make sure the group is on your side, and if not, find out why not? I assume this is a circle of friends - it would be a lot easier if everyone was on board.

I'm guessing this is a group of fairly young people playing - we old buzzards usually do not put up with that kind of stuff.

 

[Painfully]

Yeah, but once the storm is over you can actually try to enjoy the game.

If you took a secret vote, would everybody else vote him off the island?

Don't make the group suffer because one person always wants to disrupt the game.

 

[takyris]

Was gonna sleep on this and reply tomorrow, but I don't need to.

We need to hear more about his point of view. He could be somebody who's feeling railroaded by the plot and wants to explore the interesting aspects of intraparty conflict, playing someone who is morally different from the others in order to come at a problem from different angles. In movies and comic books, characters of radically different morals are forced to work together, and while some of them try to screw the others over, it always works out in the end.

In a game, it doesn't always come out that way. He could think he's making things more interesting -- not that he's screwing things up, just that he's making things interesting -- while never realizing that he's messing up everyone's experience.

Talk to the group in private. Get a real feel for it. See what the group concensus is. Then talk to him. Maybe the group surprises you. Maybe they find it fun or interesting. Maybe this really is just your problem (not saying it is, but it is a possibility). Make sure that you know that everyone is feeling this way, and then go to him with that.

If he doesn't like it, then he's in the wrong group.

The in-game option would be to try an all-evil campaign. Take the clamps off everyone else. Will he play a paladin to be different, or is his "I am different and special" really just "I have antisocial tendencies that I let out through my games"? The latter is not necessarily bad, but it sounds like a very different type of game than the one you want to have.

So see what the group wants, weigh it against what he wants and what you want, and go from there.

Very few people wake up in the morning and consciously think, "How can I screw you over?" Most people have an internal logic. You might not agree with it, but it's almost always there. If this guy is playing a stress-release mess-around game while you're going for a dramatic, cooperative narrative, that's your problem. Go with the majority vote to fix it, but don't go with "This guy is a jerk" as your mindset. Go with "This guy is looking for a different kind of game than I am". That makes it a lot less confrontational and bad and stormy.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

The best advice on how to handle the matter has already been provided. However, there is something I am curious about your group:

Will anyone else in the group have a problem with this guy leaving or being asked to leave? Does he happen to be a friend of yours (or of some of the players) who seems to be an OK guy except when it comes to gaming?

It's understandable if you foresee problems from the player in question (such as if he throws a tantrum after you tell him it's the group's way or the highway), but I didn't know if you expect any issues to come from other players (close friends of the guy in question, for example).

 

[robberbaron]

Pretty much what everyone has said. It sounds to me like he has some growing up to do.

If he can't work in a group toward shared goals then perhaps he should be playing computer games.

What do the rest of the group do about his characters screwing them over?
If he attacks the party, do they just let him or do they resist?
Do they stitch him up in return for stealing their stuff?

Maybe the other players might want to consider fighting back. If his character is diametrically opposed to the rest of the party, why don't they just kill it and move on? Give him a taste of his own medicine. Or are they too nice for that?

 

[Acid_crash]

Yesterday afternoon I had a guest over to visit, whom I thought was a friend. I was going over my campaign idea of trying to bring over some Arcana Unearthed races into Dawnforge and some of the classes also, and going over how I would like the group to be. Then I pulled out the book of Distinctions and Drawbacks and explaining how this book will be a great tool for building better characters, I told him (and my roommate) that the Lone Wolf flaw was not allowed because I was tired of someone making a character that just wouldn't work within a group context. In my explaination I said that, and this is IMO, that at least one person would intentionally make a Lone Wolf character...someone who in real life wouldn't be part of the group, and generally created to cause chaos in the group. After that, this guy, whom I have been speaking to for six months about gaming and other stuff, just stood and left, didn't even say goodbye.

That was how I got him to leave the group, and I didn't even have to tell him to leave. I just knew what kind of player he was going to become, and what kind of characters he liked based on our discussions, and outlawing the one thing that he would have picked made it seem to him that I was trying to railroad him somehow. So he left, and I am happy, and I didn't tell him to leave.

Perhaps you can do this as well...but it seems that you already tried it somewhat. If something like this doesn't work, then tell him to leave...

 

[Zero44]

Perhaps I should go into detail a bit more, after answering a few questions.

Make sure the group is on your side, and if not, find out why not? I assume this is a circle of friends - it would be a lot easier if everyone was on board.

I'm guessing this is a group of fairly young people playing - we old buzzards usually do not put up with that kind of stuff.

All in our early 20s, except me(19 this Wednesday.) And therein lies the problem. I've known this person for years. He's a great friend outside of it, but once you actually get into the game he just gets sick pleasure or something out of this.

Will anyone else in the group have a problem with this guy leaving or being asked to leave? Does he happen to be a friend of yours (or of some of the players) who seems to be an OK guy except when it comes to gaming?

It's understandable if you foresee problems from the player in question (such as if he throws a tantrum after you tell him it's the group's way or the highway), but I didn't know if you expect any issues to come from other players (close friends of the guy in question, for example).

We're all good friends of the guy, known him for a long time. And as stated above, he's a good friend otherwise.

The in-game option would be to try an all-evil campaign. Take the clamps off everyone else. Will he play a paladin to be different, or is his "I am different and special" really just "I have antisocial tendencies that I let out through my games"? The latter is not necessarily bad, but it sounds like a very different type of game than the one you want to have.

Tried this. First thing out of his mouth was "I want to play a paladin, then." (All the other players had already rolled up some variant of evil)


See, I've tried to play this guy's game back to him several times. One time he made a character and I had a well-built wizard character(I wasn't the DM this time). I argued(in-game) with the character and finally made a deal with him that if I could beat him in a duel(we were around level 5, keep in mind), he'd accompany us with no complaints.
He ended up dying. To make a long story short, DM revived him, but with amnesia, so the only thing his character knew to do was follow us along since we told him he owes his life to us. He didn't play for 3 games afterwards.

 

[Ukyo the undead]

Make him suffer the consequences of his acts.

If he wants to be a psycho, or another kind of annoying PC, tell the group that they can kick from the party someone they find out not fitting the groups ideals.

Sometimes, because of the cooperative nature of the D&D, we avoid confrontation with other players, even if it is what your Pc would do in RL.

You could make clear that the PCs should act according with theirs personalities. And kick out someone they( the PCs) dont like.

Then the prob. player will do one of the following things: Change his behavior or leave the group.

If they dont kick him out, it means they like his style of play.

 

[SGTScott]

Perhaps I should go into detail a bit more, after answering a few questions.


All in our early 20s, except me(19 this Wednesday.) And therein lies the problem. I've known this person for years. He's a great friend outside of it, but once you actually get into the game he just gets sick pleasure or something out of this.


We're all good friends of the guy, known him for a long time. And as stated above, he's a good friend otherwise.



Tried this. First thing out of his mouth was "I want to play a paladin, then." (All the other players had already rolled up some variant of evil)


See, I've tried to play this guy's game back to him several times. One time he made a character and I had a well-built wizard character(I wasn't the DM this time). I argued(in-game) with the character and finally made a deal with him that if I could beat him in a duel(we were around level 5, keep in mind), he'd accompany us with no complaints.
He ended up dying. To make a long story short, DM revived him, but with amnesia, so the only thing his character knew to do was follow us along since we told him he owes his life to us. He didn't play for 3 games afterwards.

Ya know, I had a problem player too, Heres what I did, the group shows up to play, and at the begining of the adventure, I would kill this guys character off, sure he would roll up a new one, but I kept him out of the game for the rest of the session, sure he would say when was his character going to show up and I would reply, at ease your self, I'll get to you after I work the issues with the others players.
After 3 or 4 sessions, he straightend up and actually became an ok player (hi elliot), now his buddy I booted out right off the bat (hi Joe) but thats a different story...........


Scott
of Chicago!

 

[DiFier]

could you ask him nicely to play his charachters less disruptivlly. Of course if he's as bad as he sounds that probablly will not work. When it doesn't tell him to go play grand theft auto.

You might want to take some drastic measures. if the other PC's aren't killing him - threatening him - knocking him out and leaving him tied to a bed in an inn - casting spell on him to make him go away. you might want to give them XP penalties for not playing in charachter. there must be at least one other PC who has been thinking. "O.K. billy over there keeps stealing my stuff, hiding treasure that he find and keeping all for himself, and killing people who are trying to hire us. and attacking party members casue he feels like it. I'm getting a bad reputation. this sucks." then the Player thinks but I don't want to hurt his feelings so I wouldn't stop him. that is not acting in charachter.

try running a game that has no alignments. He will feel less compelled to be a insane, poddle kicking, mugging, leaving grendes in random pedistrian's bags. just cause he's picked chaotic evil as his allignment.

I haven't gamed with my roommate for almost 2 years because he was too disruptive. and even then it was a short 3 session campaign played over christmas break with a bunch of freinds that were in from out of town. I told them that they could make what ever kind of charachter they wanted but that they were going to be in a group trying to survive. a lone charachter will NOT survive and in fact the whole group might not survive. and they were not going to be making new charachters.

I might try gaming with my roomate again. but again it will be a short campaign. probablly muntant's and masterminds. any large disruption in the ranks and the BBEG will exploit it.