Problematic player -- HELP!
- Thread starter Zero44
- Start date
Aethelstan
First Post
Frankly, you need to find a way, tactfully or not, to get his guy out of your group asap. He seems beyond reform. If he is making your life as a DM difficult, some of your players must feel the same way. Enlist some allies to change the dynamic from him vs. you to the "group" vs. him. If that falls, you could try the more drastic option of refusing to DM. If the other players really want to keep gaming, they'll pressure the troublemaker to leave.
AFGNCAAP
First Post
Zero44, I have a few questions for you:
* What games do you play other than D&D? Does he behave the same way during those games?
* It sounds like (from the info you've provided) that this player doesn't like D&D--does he happen to really like/prefer other games (say, GURPS, World of Darkness, etc.)?
If he's just as disruptive in other (non-D&D) games that I'd say that he truly is a problem player, & a gaming group intervention definitely is in order.
However, if he only acts disruptive during the D&D games, then it sounds more like a player who dislikes the game, & is acting out as a way to show his disapproval. He's still a problem player, but the nature of the problem is different, overall: basically, if he's playing something that he dislikes, he winds up trying to ruin the experience for everyone, and possibly trying (in his own way) to diussuade the group from playing D&D in order for them to play a game that he likes/prefers instead.
Also, trying to find an in-game remedy to his behavior problems may just backfire: if he creates his PC first, & the other players build characters to accomdate him, he may just as likely just have the character change alignment & resume his disruptive ways. Or, he may cry out that, once again, he's being "unfairly singled out," and cause him to keep acting the way he does (if not worse).
Zero44, this guy may be a friend, but don't let his quirks/behavior ruin your games. Believe me, any problems in a freindship are just magnified at the gaming table.
If he's acts up like this at the gamign table, despite what game is currently being played, then I'd really suggest that you & your group sit down & talk with him about it. Let him know what your issues are, and provide a few possible solutions. If he says that he'll try to amend his ways, and then immediately resumes his disruptive behavior, then, once again, confront him as a group, discuss what happened in regards to what was discussed earlier (i.e., acting disruptive after he said he would no longer act disruptive), and, as a group, inform him that he is no longer welcome to the gaming table, and will no longer be invited to the gaming table. Let him know that this decision only applies to gaming, and reaffirm that he is still considered a friend & welcome to any non-gaming activities.
If he only acts up during D&D games, & has a problem w/ D&D, then amend the above solution. If he remains a problem during D&D games, then state that he's no longer welcome to the D&D games, though he's still invited to any non-D&D games the group plays. However, it's important to let him know ahead of time if your group intends to play D&D, and if it looks like you'll be exclusively playing D&D for a while (which would mean he'll be left out for weeks/months at a time).
It may help if, at all possible, you relocate the gaming group while he's not in it--could just be at another location, or it could be at a place which may not be convenient for him to go to. Just a small way to show that from here on out, things will be different.
It is extremely important to be unaminous as a group when it comes to this. Sides/factions can be quickly formed in the group, & can ultimately break the group apart. My group used to be a quite large group of friends, but personal issues broke it apart, & continue to break it apart--it doesn't look like a gaming group at all, anymore (much less a group of friends) due to friendship politics.
I understand that you are all friends, & that you probably don't want to hurt the guy's feelings. However, it's just as important that he acknowledge & respect the feelings of other group members, & vice-versa.
Good luck, man. I hope this turns out OK for ya.
* What games do you play other than D&D? Does he behave the same way during those games?
* It sounds like (from the info you've provided) that this player doesn't like D&D--does he happen to really like/prefer other games (say, GURPS, World of Darkness, etc.)?
If he's just as disruptive in other (non-D&D) games that I'd say that he truly is a problem player, & a gaming group intervention definitely is in order.
However, if he only acts disruptive during the D&D games, then it sounds more like a player who dislikes the game, & is acting out as a way to show his disapproval. He's still a problem player, but the nature of the problem is different, overall: basically, if he's playing something that he dislikes, he winds up trying to ruin the experience for everyone, and possibly trying (in his own way) to diussuade the group from playing D&D in order for them to play a game that he likes/prefers instead.
Also, trying to find an in-game remedy to his behavior problems may just backfire: if he creates his PC first, & the other players build characters to accomdate him, he may just as likely just have the character change alignment & resume his disruptive ways. Or, he may cry out that, once again, he's being "unfairly singled out," and cause him to keep acting the way he does (if not worse).
Zero44, this guy may be a friend, but don't let his quirks/behavior ruin your games. Believe me, any problems in a freindship are just magnified at the gaming table.
If he's acts up like this at the gamign table, despite what game is currently being played, then I'd really suggest that you & your group sit down & talk with him about it. Let him know what your issues are, and provide a few possible solutions. If he says that he'll try to amend his ways, and then immediately resumes his disruptive behavior, then, once again, confront him as a group, discuss what happened in regards to what was discussed earlier (i.e., acting disruptive after he said he would no longer act disruptive), and, as a group, inform him that he is no longer welcome to the gaming table, and will no longer be invited to the gaming table. Let him know that this decision only applies to gaming, and reaffirm that he is still considered a friend & welcome to any non-gaming activities.
If he only acts up during D&D games, & has a problem w/ D&D, then amend the above solution. If he remains a problem during D&D games, then state that he's no longer welcome to the D&D games, though he's still invited to any non-D&D games the group plays. However, it's important to let him know ahead of time if your group intends to play D&D, and if it looks like you'll be exclusively playing D&D for a while (which would mean he'll be left out for weeks/months at a time).
It may help if, at all possible, you relocate the gaming group while he's not in it--could just be at another location, or it could be at a place which may not be convenient for him to go to. Just a small way to show that from here on out, things will be different.
It is extremely important to be unaminous as a group when it comes to this. Sides/factions can be quickly formed in the group, & can ultimately break the group apart. My group used to be a quite large group of friends, but personal issues broke it apart, & continue to break it apart--it doesn't look like a gaming group at all, anymore (much less a group of friends) due to friendship politics.
I understand that you are all friends, & that you probably don't want to hurt the guy's feelings. However, it's just as important that he acknowledge & respect the feelings of other group members, & vice-versa.
Good luck, man. I hope this turns out OK for ya.
mysticsorcerer
First Post
from the way it sounds, thisguy obviously is a jerk, yet you still insist on having him in your games. one thing you could do is set up a module where there are qualifications for the adventure. must be good alignment, perhaps?
if that doesn't work then you really need to just boot him. because if you don't boot him soon, the rest of your friends who play will leave.
if that doesn't work then you really need to just boot him. because if you don't boot him soon, the rest of your friends who play will leave.
Arnwyn
First Post
Well, that sums it all up right there. Simply put, your solution is to have him leave the group. It's clear that what he gets out of the game is not compatible with what you want out of the game - what he finds fun doesn't seem to be what you find fun.Zero44 said:
He is incompatible, and must leave if you want to have a smoother game. Not to come across as harsh, but IMO, you will deserve what you get if you try to keep him around. Don't punish yourself!
Calico_Jack73
First Post
Actually you can wean him out. Just don't ask him what his character is doing. Skip over him if he is going to be disruptive. Eventually he'll get bored of playing if he feels he is wasting his time. Also, it is WELL within your power as a DM to limit playable alignments/classes/races. It sounds like he might have some personal issues that he is dealing with through roleplaying. By playing a disruptive character he is forcing people to pay attention to him. In life is he either a) disruptive or b) really shy? Both personality types tend to play disruptive PC's to make up for their own personality issues. In any event he knows he is in control and can continue playing this way because you won't kick him out due to the fuss he'll make. I hate to say it and don't take it wrong but you need to grow some balls and confront him and your group on it. There are plenty of gaming groups out there so feel free to make it a "Him or Me". I'd opt to give him the boot. I've been a similar situation before and the player promised that he'd change and he did... for all of two sessions. He then went back to his usual style of play.
There is some really good advice in this thread. However, there is also some not-so-great advice in this thread.
Good: Talk to the player out of game, with your other friends there. Call it an "intervention" or just a "group meeting." But make everyone be involved. You're suffering from a fear of confrontation (very common) and having the others there will bolster you. Be prepared, though, for the others to be quiet and not openly back you. Just buck up and you'll be OK. I hate doing this, because I don't like to play "the bad guy," (Well, OK, I do, but only in D&D) but sometimes it's necessary.
Bad: Finding an in-game anything. This doesn't work. I once thought that I could change a player's personality by providing positive and negative reinforcement in-game. It didn't work. It doesn't work. I had to ask that player not to come back.
Many people go through life not wanting to have confrontations with anyone. This is not possible. If you don't want to be a floormat all your life, you have to realize that it's OK to tell people "no, you can't do that" or "no, you can't be evil in my game." Now is a good time to learn a basic of life: stick up for yourself. Sometimes, other people won't like it. Sometimes it's hard. But, if you start early, you'll learn how to do it well and not be railroaded into doing things you don't want to do.
You can still be this guy's friend, but he's not the kind of D&D player you want. That's OK. If he doesn't want to be your friend after this, can you really say he was a friend at all?
Good luck, but considering the number of great people on EN World, you should be encouraged that there are lots of great players out there.
Good: Talk to the player out of game, with your other friends there. Call it an "intervention" or just a "group meeting." But make everyone be involved. You're suffering from a fear of confrontation (very common) and having the others there will bolster you. Be prepared, though, for the others to be quiet and not openly back you. Just buck up and you'll be OK. I hate doing this, because I don't like to play "the bad guy," (Well, OK, I do, but only in D&D) but sometimes it's necessary.
Bad: Finding an in-game anything. This doesn't work. I once thought that I could change a player's personality by providing positive and negative reinforcement in-game. It didn't work. It doesn't work. I had to ask that player not to come back.
Many people go through life not wanting to have confrontations with anyone. This is not possible. If you don't want to be a floormat all your life, you have to realize that it's OK to tell people "no, you can't do that" or "no, you can't be evil in my game." Now is a good time to learn a basic of life: stick up for yourself. Sometimes, other people won't like it. Sometimes it's hard. But, if you start early, you'll learn how to do it well and not be railroaded into doing things you don't want to do.
You can still be this guy's friend, but he's not the kind of D&D player you want. That's OK. If he doesn't want to be your friend after this, can you really say he was a friend at all?
Good luck, but considering the number of great people on EN World, you should be encouraged that there are lots of great players out there.
Buttercup
Princess of Florin
Zero, I must admit I don't understand this situation, for several reasons.
1. You say this guy is your friend. But he sure isn't acting like it. He's being a jerk, and you're letting him. I suppose it could be that you really don't like conflict, so you will let people treat you like a doormat. And you know, passive-aggresive "solutions" don't work. If you have a problem with someone, it's always best to address it honestly, but without getting emotional.
2. This guy keeps creating characters that are disruptive. Why do you let him? Just about every DM I've ever heard of starts a new campaign with at least a few restrictions--alignment, class, race. Further, it is common to expect players to create characters to be team players. Put your foot down. You're the DM, so act like it. If he whines about you being biased, tell him to suck it up.
3. The other players don't like this guy's behavior, according to you. (I have no reason to disbelieve you. Who would actually like spending time with a jerk like him?) So why is it that all of you have let him behave this way? Can you guys not manage to scrape together enough nerve to deal with him? I mean, come on!
Tell him the way it is. If he doesn't like it, tell him to get bent.
1. You say this guy is your friend. But he sure isn't acting like it. He's being a jerk, and you're letting him. I suppose it could be that you really don't like conflict, so you will let people treat you like a doormat. And you know, passive-aggresive "solutions" don't work. If you have a problem with someone, it's always best to address it honestly, but without getting emotional.
2. This guy keeps creating characters that are disruptive. Why do you let him? Just about every DM I've ever heard of starts a new campaign with at least a few restrictions--alignment, class, race. Further, it is common to expect players to create characters to be team players. Put your foot down. You're the DM, so act like it. If he whines about you being biased, tell him to suck it up.
3. The other players don't like this guy's behavior, according to you. (I have no reason to disbelieve you. Who would actually like spending time with a jerk like him?) So why is it that all of you have let him behave this way? Can you guys not manage to scrape together enough nerve to deal with him? I mean, come on!
Tell him the way it is. If he doesn't like it, tell him to get bent.
Rel
Liquid Awesome
If I were absolutely dead set on finding an in-game solution to this problem (which you seem to be), here's what I'd do:
At the start of EVERY session, I'd have some kind of ghostly force manifest around his character and I'd say, "Make a Fortitude Save". Because I'm a decent guy, I'd let the die stop rolling before I said, "You fail and die." Then I'd get on with the rest of the game and he can go in the corner and make a new character if he wants.
Eventually I suspect that he'd come to me and say, "I'm not having any fun. You never give any of my characters a chance to have fun before you just arbitrarily kill them." I'd respond by saying, "I felt that it might give you a sense of empathy for how I felt about the intricate plot lines I craft for my game when you arbitrarily wreck them." From there, we can have a conversation about it or not but I'll just keep killing every character he makes until he quits being a butthole or quits the game.
HOWEVER, to me, that is a waste of paper (all those character sheets you know) and I frankly don't have the interest or energy to run through that dog and pony show. So what I'd really do if it were me is this:
I'd tell this guy that while he might think his characters are making the game "fun" that, in fact, they are not. He is not "keeping things interesting". What he is doing is more akin to showing up at Poker Night and waiting until the cards are dealt and the chips are down before he throws the whole table upside down. The fun of everybody else participating should not and WILL NOT be held hostage by one jerkoff on a power trip of some sort. After this very brief explanation, I'd let him know that he's welcome to shape up or ship out and while I'd prefer the former I'll accept the latter. End of conversation.
At the start of EVERY session, I'd have some kind of ghostly force manifest around his character and I'd say, "Make a Fortitude Save". Because I'm a decent guy, I'd let the die stop rolling before I said, "You fail and die." Then I'd get on with the rest of the game and he can go in the corner and make a new character if he wants.
Eventually I suspect that he'd come to me and say, "I'm not having any fun. You never give any of my characters a chance to have fun before you just arbitrarily kill them." I'd respond by saying, "I felt that it might give you a sense of empathy for how I felt about the intricate plot lines I craft for my game when you arbitrarily wreck them." From there, we can have a conversation about it or not but I'll just keep killing every character he makes until he quits being a butthole or quits the game.
HOWEVER, to me, that is a waste of paper (all those character sheets you know) and I frankly don't have the interest or energy to run through that dog and pony show. So what I'd really do if it were me is this:
I'd tell this guy that while he might think his characters are making the game "fun" that, in fact, they are not. He is not "keeping things interesting". What he is doing is more akin to showing up at Poker Night and waiting until the cards are dealt and the chips are down before he throws the whole table upside down. The fun of everybody else participating should not and WILL NOT be held hostage by one jerkoff on a power trip of some sort. After this very brief explanation, I'd let him know that he's welcome to shape up or ship out and while I'd prefer the former I'll accept the latter. End of conversation.
The Cardinal
First Post
just two truths:
1. THIS GUY IS NOT YOUR FRIEND.
2. GROW A SPINE AND KICK HIM OUT: IF HE'LL NEVER PLAYS A RPG IN HIS LIFE AGAIN, WE'LL ALL HAVE TO THANK YOU!
1. THIS GUY IS NOT YOUR FRIEND.
2. GROW A SPINE AND KICK HIM OUT: IF HE'LL NEVER PLAYS A RPG IN HIS LIFE AGAIN, WE'LL ALL HAVE TO THANK YOU!
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