D&D 5E Proficiency Bonus, Fighters & Damage

[TwoSix]

Fighter = 470 (+subclass)
Barbarian = 399
Reckless Barbarian = 490
Paladin = 434
Rogue = 349
Monk = 483 (- fighting style bonus)
Cleric = 236 (+ ???)
Proposed fighter: 627

Huh. I always thought monks were a little underappreciated as damage dealers, especially if you're not using GWM/SS. Nice confirmation.

 

[mellored]

Fighters could use a proficiency bonus to damage for opportunity attacks IMO.

I think that would be a good rule for everyone.

 

[jgsugden]

Balance does not mean equal. It means that when you take the totality of all the circumstances surrounding an option, it makes sense that some people will want to use it. Plenty of people like playing a wide variety of fighters.

There is no problem to be solved, here.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I think that would be a good rule for everyone.

This is why the Fighter can't have nice things.

OK, it's not the only reason, but it's one of 'em.

 

[jgsugden]

Huh. I always thought monks were a little underappreciated as damage dealers, especially if you're not using GWM/SS. Nice confirmation.

I'm not following the math provided, but generally monks are a bit underpowered.

For example, let's say I have standard array of stats and two 8th level PCs: Battlemaster Fighter with GWM and a 20 strength and a dexterity 20 monk. They are each going to have a long rest, fight 3 encounters, take a short rest and fight 3 more encounters before their next long rest. Each combat is 4 rounds.

The fighter gets multi-attack, a 2d6 weapon, action surge twice, 10 d8 superiority dice (assume all are ripostes or otherwise grant an extra attack and damage). That is attacking at +3 for 2d6(average 8.33 due to GWF)+15 each time, with 39 (one bonus attack from GWM on average in the 28 attacks on the fighter's turn) attacks and an additional 10d8 superiority damage. Versus AC 15, that is about 310 damage.

The monk gets multi-attack, a d6 weapon, and 16 flurries for 2 attacks each. That is +8 for d6+5 for 40 attacks. That is about 245 damage.

Now, if you can add Hex in there that becomes +8 for 2d6+5 for 40 attacks it is about 350 damage. However, getting Hex for attacks on both sides of the short rest is hard without spending a level on another class. Further, once you hit 11th level and the fighter advances up to 3 attacks per round, even the Hex Monk begins to fall behind. Plus, few monks use all Ki on extra attacks - not when they might be using their path abilities.

However, I did play in a one shot where the DM provided me with a 9th level human monk with a flame tongue shortsword and a human variant feat of warlock magic initiate. He was.... effective with 4d6+5 attacks.

 

[mellored]

They are each going to have a long rest, fight 3 encounters, take a short rest and fight 3 more encounters before their next long rest. Each combat is 4 rounds.

You are "supposed" to get 2 short rests per day.

But yes, GWM will quickly leave monks behind in terms of damage. Though monks should really be stunning, which is a whole other not-as-easily-quantified dynamic.

 

[mellored]

This is why the Fighter can't have nice things.

OK, it's not the only reason, but it's one of 'em.

Which is why we don't need a fighter.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Which is why we don't need a fighter.

But we do need a Warlord. ;P

 

[Eubani]

Devil's Advocate on the whole "but they get 2 extra feats" reasoning. Firstly the second extra feat is rarely seen as many games either do not go that far or end in that area. Secondly the main thrust of the advocacy is that what should one use the feats on? Fighters are no shows in the social pillar.......But you have 2 extra feats. Fighters are a no show in the exploration pillar.......But you have 2 extra feats. Other classes are out damaging my fighter.......But you have 2 extra feats. My fighters saves suck.......But you have 2 extra feats. My fighter lacks mobility.......But you have 2 extra feats. 2 feats if feats are allowed only goes so far specially if you are largely only getting access to them at mid and end campaign. I am not necessarily agreeing with the OP's idea but the count of.......But you have 2 extra feats falls short when you take a wider view of the class. How about restricting the bonus damage to either once per turn like other similar damage extras or only when attacking with advantage? Considering what the fighter sacrifices to be the best at combat is it far enough ahead if ahead at all?

 

[Xeviat]

Battle Master is +18 damage per short rest at 3rd level (and that's using the simple maneuvers that are easier to quantify). At that same level, the paladin has 3 1st level slots for divine smite, or +27 damage per day. Battle Masters actually have too much damage.

Champion is behind at 3rd and only catches up if you minmax for crits hard.

When I look at classes, the GWM Fighter and the Duelist Fighter make for really nice Damage benchmarks.

Short rests might be doing you in if you're not getting 2 a day.


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