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D&D 5E Proficiency Bonus, Fighters & Damage

Erechel

Explorer
Long story short: I know DPR isn't the best judge of a class. Yes, I know. I know that isn't all that important. That being said:

It bothers me that, comparatively, fighters are the least proficient damagers dealers with a weapon among the melee classes. I'm not taking account the ammount of attacks that fighters could possibly make, as they only differentiate from other clases (like Paladins and Valor Bards) in the ammount of attacks from level 11th onwards... where the other beasties gain other supernatural abilities (like Divine Smite). But, per attack, the fighter (specially Champion's) damage is moot.

*Barbarians have rage for an unlimited amount of attacks while raging.
*Paladins have Divine Smite (which consumes spells) and Improved Divine Smite (which don't).
*Rangers have spells like Hunter's Mark, and the Hunter has a few more moves also.
*Most Clerics (!) have Divine Strike from level 8th, increasing in further levels.
*Battlemaster fighters have (limited) Maneuvers that don't benefit from multiattack, often less than a paladin's smites (also, the smites have higher damage than a BM maneuver).
*The best damage dealers with a single strike are the rogues, of course, with Sneak Attack.
*Champions have an increased range of critics, but that's somewhat underwhelming, damage wise.
*The monk is perhaps the weakest of the melee combatants, but has its own strengths.

I'm not taking account of the Fighting Styles because only 2 of them increase damage (dueling and GW), and most derivations of figher (such as paladins and rangers) get them too. Feats are also available to all classes.

Fighters could possibly receive earlier the benefits of the fighting stat, but that's somewhat redundant, because in the end almost all classes involved in fights will. And it attacks my immersion that the fighters are the least damaging per attack of the lot, BELOW CLERICS. Shouldn't the enemies of the figher fear the mighty blows of the champion? It is their Schtick, after all: they are very powerful weapon masters. And this could be simple enough: as their mastery and training grows, the fighter's damage also grows. Most weapons deal more damage based on technique, not brute strength or "dexterity".

So, it would be ground-breaking that the fighter (specially the champion) add their Proficiency Bonus to their weapon damage? That would be a great way to sinergize also with their multiple attacks; and also the rest of the classes would have to spend resources to keep up with them (a 11th level dueling champion without feats, EG, would deal 1d8+(5)+6 with a longsword, with an average of 15.5 per attack; and if he took a longbow he would still do a respectable 1d8+(stat)+4 damage.
 

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Tony Vargas

Legend
I'm not taking account the ammount of attacks that fighters could possibly make, as they only differentiate from other clases (like Paladins and Valor Bards) in the ammount of attacks from level 11th onwards... where the other beasties gain other supernatural abilities (like Divine Smite). But, per attack, the fighter (specially Champion's) damage is moot.
Hey, there's someone to see you, says his name is 'Action Surge' and he looks ready to go off on you, if y'know what I mean...

Fighters could possibly receive earlier the benefits of the fighting stat, but that's somewhat redundant, because in the end almost all classes involved in fights will.
So, at 6th the Fighter maybe pulls ahead by 1 thanks to an ASI to attack stat (or, if he already maxes out, gets the best feat 2 levels early). Then, after that has worn off, he finally pulls ahead in attacks.

And it attacks my immersion that the fighters are the least damaging per attack of the lot
Get your immersion some better armor. ;)

And this could be simple enough: as their mastery and training grows, the fighter's damage also grows. Most weapons deal more damage based on technique, not brute strength or "dexterity".
That's prettymuch what we have now through Extra Attack, Action Surge, GWM/SS, and Improved Crit or CS dice.

So, it would be ground-breaking that the fighter (specially the champion) add their Proficiency Bonus to their weapon damage?
'Bigger numbers' are, perhaps ironically, a weak differentiator or classes. If the margin isn't that big, it makes no real difference. If the margin's big enough, the big-numbers class is 'broken,' OP.
There's no sweet spot in that kind of design.
Either you're boring, or you're over-powered - or both.
 
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Sacrosanct

Legend
You're neglecting action surge. Which is important. I had a halfling battlemaster fighter use action surge and was able to spend all of my superiority dice in one round, effectively nova'ing as good as any other class. And that wasn't high level either. I think it was level 8 or so.

*edit* And yes, while ever class gets feats, fighters get two EXTRA ones. That matters a lot. For example, a fighter can pick all the feats any other class gets, and then gets an additional +1 to attack and damage on every attack on top of that (+2 when they get the second ASI), or get extra feats that make the whatever build they are doing even better.
 
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Fighters deal the least per-hit because they have the most hits. If they did as much per-hit, and also had more attacks, then they'd just be way more effective than anyone else.

If you really want to reduce the disparity, remove Extra Attack as a class feature at level 11 and replace that with a flat or scaling damage bonus.
 
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Dausuul

Legend
As others have pointed out:

  • Action Surge. By the book guidelines (6-8 combats per day, two short rests), and assuming 5 rounds per combat on average, Action Surge grants +8.5% DPR all by itself.
  • Bonus feats are a big freakin' deal. At level 6, you get +2 Strength over the others. At level 8, when they catch up on Strength, you get Great Weapon Mastery, which is generally regarded as somewhere between "a top-tier damage feat" and "OMGBROKEN." At level 12, when they get Great Weapon Mastery, you've got your third attack.
  • Champion crits and battlemaster maneuvers. You wave these off, for no good reason I can see; by themselves, they don't equal paladin smite or ranger spells, but they're cumulative with the previous two.
  • Most of the other class abilities you listed have limits that you're completely ignoring. The paladin is trading spell slots for smite damage. The ranger is trading spell slots for hunter's mark damage. The barbarian only gets to rage for 2 fights per day.
  • Clerical smite damage bugs you because it boosts the cleric's per-attack damage above the fighter's, even though the fighter is getting twice as many attacks? Uh... okay. I don't know what to tell you on this one. This is purely a matter of aesthetics, so I can't really argue the point, except to say that your aesthetic is utterly alien to me.
For your proposal: Adding proficiency bonus to fighter damage will make fighters crazy-powerful. If you're set on this idea, I would strongly recommend considering what you're going to take away from fighters to compensate.
 
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mellored

Legend
Your missing action surge and the extra feat.

So at level 8, wielding a maul. The fighter has 20 Str, the rest have 18 Str.
(I'm ignoring fighting style, crits, and sub classes to simplify the calculation).

Fighter: 2*(2d6+5) = 24 * 70% accuracy = 16.8 Base, +1 actions surge* 3 short rest *16.8 = 50.4 bonus damage.
Barbarian: 2*(2d6+4) = 22 * 65% accuracy = 14.3 base, +4 rages * 4 round combats * 2 extra damage * 2 attacks * .65 accuracy = 41.6 bonus damage.
Reckless Barbarian: 2*(2d6+4) = 22 * 79.75 = 17.545 base, +4 rages * 4 round combats * 2 damage * 2 attacks * .7975 accuracy = 51.04 bonus damage.
Paladin: 2*(2d6+4) = 22 * 65% accuracy = 14.3 base, +4*2d8+3*3d8 = 76.5 bonus damage.
Rogue: 1*(1d6+4+4d6) = 21.5 * .65% accuracy = 13.975 base.
Monk: 3*(1d6+4) = 22.5 * 65% base = 14.625 base, +8 flurry of blows * 3 short rests * (1d6+4)*.65 accuracy = 117 extra damage.
Clerics: 1*(2d6+1d6+4) * .65% = 9.425 base.. ??? extra damage.
Proposed Fighter: 2*(2d6+5+4) * .7 = 22.4 base. + 3*22.4 = 67.2 bonus.

Total, assuming 25 rounds of combat a day...

Fighter = 470 (+subclass)
Barbarian = 399
Reckless Barbarian = 490
Paladin = 434
Rogue = 349
Monk = 483 (- fighting style bonus)
Cleric = 236 (+ ???)
Proposed fighter: 627

So yes, proficiency bonus to damage would be way too much. And it get's much worse at 11.


That said, I agree champions could use a little boost. I increase their hit die to 1d12.
 


mellored

Legend
And it attacks my immersion that the fighters are the least damaging per attack of the lot
How about making all your attacks in one roll?

i.e.
Super-strike (replaces action surge): Once per short rest, when you hit, you can deal double damage.
Increases to twice per short rest at 17(?).

Mega-attack (replaces multi-attack): When you hit, you deal double damage. A super-mega-strike would deal 4x as much damage. (4d6+10 is more damage than the rogues 5d6+4)
At level 11, this increases to triple the damage. A super-mega-strike would deal 6x as much damage. (6d6+15 is more than rogues 7d6+5)
At level 20, this is quadruple the damage. A super-mega-strike would deal 8x as much damage. (8d6+20 is more than rogues 11d6+5)


The extra advantage of on-hit super-strike makes up for the loss of multi-attack and how you now suck against a horde of kobolds, as well as the versatility of double dashing or something. Otherwise, it's the same average damage as the base fighter.

But not for battlemasters (precision strike would be too much).
 
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Sacrosanct

Legend
It also depends on how you look at it, re: the "per attack" context.

Paladins and barbarians? They use a divine power or a furious rage to increase that attack's power
Rogues? They aim for the sensitive areas to make the attack count.
Fighters? They are blenders. whirling blades. Hail of arrows. This has an added benefit in that it allows the fighter to attack multiple targets, so there is less wasted roll over damage that may occur with singular attacks like the paladin, barbarian, or rogue.

That is, if a monster has 15 HP (you as the player don't know), if you're the paladin and use divine smite and end up doing 25 points in your attack, 15 points are wasted. The fighter, who might also do 25 points but is broken down into one attack at 15 and another at 10, kills the monster with the first one, and can use the second attack on another monster. (don't get caught up in the numbers, just for illustrative purposes)
 


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