Protecting Troops from Fireball

[kigmatzomat]

Let's face facts here: Warrior1s vs. fireballs are like doughboys charging artillery. They gonna die. By the same token, those warrior1s have a good chance of dying from a single arrow so if they soak up a fireball, which is more expensive and in fewer numbers than arrows, they are doing some good to the army. Still sucks to be them.

However with the exception of two armies facing off, you probably won't have your troops that densely packed. Even when you are faced off, only the main wall should be shoulder-to-shoulder. The ranks should be staggered a bit to avoid AE attacks and to allow runners to make their way through the forces to/from commanders.

"Kill the caster" or at least "interrupt the caster" is the most probably option. A decent army (couple thousand troops) should have an archer cadre; the best should be detailed along with a knowledgable spotter to target casters. These snipers should be dispersed through the normal troops to minimize the effect of retaliation.

Snipers may not even be equipped with normal arrows; consider tanglefoot bags, alchemist's fire, thunderstones, or smokesticks. Tanglefoot bags and alchemist fire will probably require using a staff sling but smokesticks and thunderstones are easily used on a bow. Fire smokesticks from a Flaming Bow and it gets that much funnier.

 

[Nim]

Snipers may not even be equipped with normal arrows; consider tanglefoot bags, alchemist's fire, thunderstones, or smokesticks. Tanglefoot bags and alchemist fire will probably require using a staff sling but smokesticks and thunderstones are easily used on a bow. Fire smokesticks from a Flaming Bow and it gets that much funnier.

Arrows with Silence cast on them. Of course, there are no rules I'm aware of for whether arrowheads lodge in wounds, but I'd probably make a spot-ruling that pulling an arrow out without taking proper care is going to inflict more damage (and that 'proper care' is assumed to happen after combat, but has to be explicitly dealt with if you want to do it in the middle of a fight).

 

[andargor]

Andargor, thanks for spell suggestions: I assume MH is the Miniatures Handbook?

Yep.

Andargor

 

[Zandel]

Originally Posted by Glass
Heroes of Battle suggests using one move action each round and then readying an action to scatter if an area effect spell hits. Won't save everyone, but it'll help.

First appeared in CW......good option....CW also has idea on wether to use magic and monsters in battle or not......if you do then your 100 solidures will be one to a 10' square at least anyway just to try and protect themselves.

Magic really screws with historic battle types.

 

[andargor]

Got a couple more for you:

In Frostburn, there's suppress flame, 10 ft. cube/level, Sor/Wiz 6, all fire spells reduced to 1 hit point of damage per die (e.g. 10d6 fireball = 10 points of damage on failed save). Lasts 1 hour/level. Good for protecting a position, but not for movement.

There's also wall of coldfire, Drd 5, Sor/Wiz 4, 20 ft. high, 20ft./level length, 20 points of fire damage suppresses the length of wall affected, gives concealment, deals damage similar to the other wall spells if enemies get close. Same drawback on movement.

PGtF has fireward, Drd 5, inverse of quench, no magical fire effective within 20 ft. cube/level (S). Like antimagic field but for normal fire and fire spells only.

Perhaps wall of ice could be used as a shield as well?

Andargor

 

[argo]

I'd really like for the Counterspell option to be a valid tactic, but I see several fatal disadvantages:
(1) Your caster is tied up for the duration with a Ready action (no counterattack, and consider the case if the attack is by surprise -- no Ready allowed)

If your army is taken by suprise then you take casualties, thats what happens when you get ambushed.

(2) Your caster must target a single individual enemy caster (consider if multiple enemy casters, or they're out-of-range, or they're hidden or disguised, etc.)

If your army is engaged by forces who outnumber you then you take casualties, thats what happens when you get outnumbered.

(3) Your caster must have fireball prepared themselves (or suffer about 50% failure by using dispel magic, bad prospect for an ongoing magical fight).

If your army runs out of ammo in the middle of a fight then you take casualties, thats what happens when your supplies/manpower are inadaquate.

War ain't fun


With regards to tower shields: yes they do not stop a Spread effect, however a creature with "improved cover" gets a +4 bonus to reflex saves and makes reflex saves as though he had improved evasion. Since a tower shield gives total cover you may consider giving troops in a shield wall formation this benefit as a house rule. This then would mean the warriors would still be toasted on a failed save but could survive as long as they keep making their saves.

Beyond that. Fight the same way modern troops do when facing artilery or mortars. Manuver in a scattered formation, using the terrain for cover, until you close with the enemy then form ranks and attack.

Hope that helps.

 

[Grogtar]

Im not sure I understand the problem. People using Tower Shields can easily block a fireball, cant they ?

When using a tower shield for full cover you get to select one "side" of your square that you gain total cover from. Like this (x = people, | = shield):

_____|x
---> |x
_____|x

If the arrow is the fireball its line of sight and effect is blocked by hard cover. Doesnt this mean the fireball fizzles ?

<edit : ignore the _'s. Stupid formatting>

 

[LostSoul]

however a creature with "improved cover" gets a +4 bonus to reflex saves and makes reflex saves as though he had improved evasion.

I thought that was only with burst spells, and not with spreads.

Oh, I see what I was thinking:

Cover and Reflex Saves: Cover grants you a +2 bonus on Reflex saves against attacks that originate or burst out from a point on the other side of the cover from you. Note that spread effects can extend around corners and thus negate this cover bonus.

Varying Degrees of Cover: In some cases, cover may provide a greater bonus to AC and Reflex saves. In such situations the normal cover bonuses to AC and Reflex saves can be doubled (to +8 and +4, respectively). A creature with this improved cover effectively gains improved evasion against any attack to which the Reflex save bonus applies. Furthermore, improved cover provides a +10 bonus on Hide checks.

Huh, didn't know that was in there.

Anyway... I don't think I'd allow improved cover for a fireball or any spread - if all you have is a tower shield.


I'd use smoke and cover and stay scattered and hope we get to the enemy before we are torched.

 

[Nim]

If the arrow is the fireball its line of sight and effect is blocked by hard cover. Doesnt this mean the fireball fizzles ?

Not fizzles, no. It detonates when it strikes the solid object.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Get a level 1 wizard with a wand of dispel magic (with only 10 charges and set at caster level 5 worth just over 2k gold) with the specific purposes of countering the spells of enemy wizards (and only the dangerous area effecting kind).

Train your wizard with a focus on spell craft and have him take the skill focus (spell craft) so they can more easily identify enemy spells so he doesn't try to counter every single one with his wand.
He should have around a +8 or +9 (+1 or +2 int, +3 feat, 4 ranks) with his spell craft and at level 2 should have +11 or +12 (+1 or +2 int, +3 feat, 5 ranks, +2 synergy from knowledge (arcana)).

Or train a group archers with long bows who have ranks in spot (and any other relevant skill) so they can identify enemy spell casters and ready actions to shoot arrows at them while they are casting forcing them to make concetration checks.