Psion vs. Cerebremancer vs. Psion Uncarnate

[Asmor]

Uh oh... only a matter of time before someone suggests a Vow of Poverty Unbodied! Oh, wait, I just did.

Oooh! I hadn't even thought of that! I've always wanted an excuse to run a character with VoP!

Now, the question is, do I go human as I originally intended, or Warforged + Adamantine Armor? Realistically, the only downside to going with the warforged is that I'd lose 1 general feat and a few exalted ones, but there aren't many exalted feats that apply to my character unless I wanna take vows out the wazoo...

Hmm, can I use Adamantine Body? It seems like, since it's a part of my own body, I should be able to not have any penalties for not being proficient with heavy armor, but I don't have the book handy at the moment... (at school).

 

[Asmor]

Ok, so I've basically decided that I'm going to be a Warforged Psion (just straight psion).

Would you guys mind checking my math on the skills and feats? Mind you, I don't need any help picking them, I just wanna make sure that I have them all allocated correctly.

Skill points (2+Int modifier per level)
1: 18 - 6
2: 18 - 6
3: 18 - 6
4: 19 - 6 (+1 Int, level 4)
5: 19 - 6
6: 19 - 6
7: 21 - 7 (+2 Int, Vow of Poverty)
8: 22 - 8 (+1 Int, level 8)
9: 22 - 8
10: 22 - 8
11: 24 - 9 (+2 Int, Vow of Poverty)
12: 25 - 9 (+1 Int, level 12)
13: 25 - 9
14: 25 - 9
15: 27 - 10 (+2 Int, Vow of Poverty)
16: 28 - 11 (+1 Int, level 16)
17: 28 - 11

Skills:
6 @ 20 ranks
1 @ 11 ranks
1 @ 10 ranks
1 @ 7 ranks
1 @ 3 ranks
1 @ 2 ranks

Feats:
Level 1: Adamantine Body, [Psionic]
Level 3: Sacred Vow
Level 5: [Psionic]
Level 6: Vow of Poverty, [Exalted]
Level 8: [Exalted]
Level 9: [Any]
Level 10: [Psionic], [Exalted]
Level 12: [Any], [Exalted]
Level 14: [Exalted]
Level 15: [Any], [Psionic]
Level 16: [Exalted]

 

[KarinsDad]

Oooh! I hadn't even thought of that! I've always wanted an excuse to run a character with VoP!

Now, the question is, do I go human as I originally intended, or Warforged + Adamantine Armor? Realistically, the only downside to going with the warforged is that I'd lose 1 general feat and a few exalted ones, but there aren't many exalted feats that apply to my character unless I wanna take vows out the wazoo...

Hmm, can I use Adamantine Body? It seems like, since it's a part of my own body, I should be able to not have any penalties for not being proficient with heavy armor, but I don't have the book handy at the moment... (at school).

There is no problem using Adamantine Body. The PC just cannot do many physical skills well due to the (equivalent to armor check) penalty.

The main issue is whether the PC wants to go (Illithid) Slayer or not.

If so, he cannot take Ranger 1 (which gives good starting skill points, Track, BAB, and +2 Reflex) as a Warforged or else he will eventually lose XP for favored class Fighter.

If he does not want to go Slayer (and be a bit of a combat machine), and just wants to go Psion or possibly Psion / some other psionic PrC, then the Adamantine Body feat works pretty good.

In fact, there really isn't anything in VoP (IIRC) which prevents the Warforged from making his body magical, he just cannot pay for it with money. For example, if an NPC rewarded him with a magical body, that would be (at least IMC) reasonable.

There is a difference between owning a magical item and making yourself magical. Some DMs might disallow this.

As for the Exalted feats, that's a wash. There are very few character concepts that can actually gain all of their VoP Exalted feats from the limited list available since so many Exalted feats are specific to certain classes or abilities.

 

[Wolfwood2]

Ok, so I've basically decided that I'm going to be a Warforged Psion (just straight psion).

Would you guys mind checking my math on the skills and feats? Mind you, I don't need any help picking them, I just wanna make sure that I have them all allocated correctly.

Is your GM really going to be good with Vow of Poverty? It just seems kind of the cheese.

Why not just do a straight-foward warforgred psion? Take Craft Psionic Arms and Armor and enhance yourself, buy some nice utility powerstones for powers you don't have, and get some Crystal Capacitors.

 

[Asmor]

Is your GM really going to be good with Vow of Poverty? It just seems kind of the cheese.

Why not just do a straight-foward warforgred psion? Take Craft Psionic Arms and Armor and enhance yourself, buy some nice utility powerstones for powers you don't have, and get some Crystal Capacitors.

I really don't see how VoP is all that bad. It gives you some nice abilities, but it's not like it's more powerful than being able to have all sorts of magic items. Honestly, I'd think having the magic items would be more powerful, although the fact that I can't have the bonuses from the Vow taken away seems to balance that well enough, not that this DM ever has expressed any interest in taking things away from people...

Besides which, he allows anything from any book, official or 3rd party, as long as you can show it to him if he asks. Not a policy that I'd allow myself, but I'm not the GM. For the record, though, I probably would let someone in my own game take VoP if they wanted.

 

[KarinsDad]

Ok, so I've basically decided that I'm going to be a Warforged Psion (just straight psion).

Would you guys mind checking my math on the skills and feats? Mind you, I don't need any help picking them, I just wanna make sure that I have them all allocated correctly.

Assuming an 18 starting Int, this looks correct (except I could not double check the Exalted feats).

PS. Insightful Reflexes is a good feat to take (+Int to Reflex saves), but with your build, the earliest you could take it is level 9. Still, +14 to Reflex saves for a PC with poor Reflex saves without a single psionic boost at level 17 is not too shabby.

And, Control Body / Solicit Psicrystal allows your psicrystral have your body attack while your mind still does powers. This makes it +9 to hit, +9 to AC, and +9 to damage, all from Int. That means that Str and Dex can be a bit of dump stats (e.g. in the 10 range). It also means that you can boost Int, Con, Wis, and Cha with your other VoP stat boosts.

 

[Malum]

Human Cerebramancer all the way!!!
Practiced spellcaster / practiced manifester / Expanded Knowledge *Astral Construct / Boost Construct / Extend Power / Exp Know. *Energy Missile / widen

You WILL be a walking Arsenal of Fire Power and with your trusty Construct at your side nobody dare get close to you.

Malum Fama Este (my namesake) is a lawful evil 18th Cerebramancer. Malum is a mass area destroyer and I lay to waste using Schism / Astral Construct / “enter 2 offensive powers/spells here” all competitor “big boomers”. Sure they have the higher level spells but for the big boom with endurance I take them down.

Commonly used Powers/Spells
Energy Adaption
Energy Missile
Astral Construct
Precog defense maxed out always
Inertial Armor maxed out always
Energy screen
Death Urge
Mind Thrust
Mass Missive (I liked to threaten whole communities)
Body Adjustment
Vigor
Touchsight
freedom of movement
Psychic Crush
Fly
Invisibility
Favorite tactics
1) Manefest an Astral Construct and have him mall any spellcasters or Rogues same on melee guys except I would make it a grappler and let the Rogues back stab him to death as he attempts to grapple my construct.
2) Use an extended Death Urge on a big heavy...sit back w/ popcorn and watch him try to kill him self w/ a full round attack for 2 rounds...all hits successful & instant crits.
3) Use fort save energy missile to Rogue or Monk types, reflex to spellcasters & brutes
4) Oh yay cone and line effect the crap out of an area w/ widen powers

I’m not to hip on the higher level powers or many of the spells anyways, wish etc. so this was a great fit for me as a player. Being ½ Wizard certainly allowed for a well diversified selection unlike any I have ever seen. He had it all, the movement, offense, defense & utility.

The straight classed Clerics (there was 2) are same level and both just shake there head at the damage Malum consistently causes. IMHO he was & still is broken & was responsible for the early retirement of the campaign. 34 Int, 20 Con (tomes, +6 headbands, +5 Cloak of resistance, +4 ring of protection, lesser rod of quickening 3x day & more)


Malum

 

[Malum]

Serves me right to take so long to finish a response. Ok so to hades with the Cerebramancer you want to be an armored tank with Psionics

Vigor, energy adaption, Freedom of movement & if you have a sadistical side death urge it was actually funny at times, oh the sweet memory of our lawful evil campaign.

 

[wildstarsreach]

A Cerebremancer is fairly potent, but not broken. It suffers from the same disease that all dual-casters suffer: no access to the next highest spell slot compared to a focused, single-class caster. At 17th level, a Cleric or Wizard will be able to cast Gate to call in their local Solar, and that will single handedly end the encounter (a little difficult to imagine how it won't). The most Jadenian can muster is Finger of Death, which is somewhat underwhelming in comparison. Even without Gate cheese, we still have the rest of the 8th and 9th level spell lists to go through: and each of those spells is probably worth more than any two of your lower power spells.

And the Straight Wizard and Cleric in our party were over shadowed in the higher levels. From 4th to 9th levels, he was under powered. From 10th to 14th he held his own and from 15th on thought of as the most powerful character and proved it in over 20 encounters. So what if they have 8th and 9th level spells, Endurance was the key to his power.

 

[Solarious]

Ah, but with a single 9th level spell, they achieve what would take 2-4 of your own spells in a single action, and with higher save DCs too. Wail of the Banshee, at minimum, trumps Finger of Death any day, capable of slaying a maximum of 17 creatures, but more realisticly about 5-6 under optimal conditions. Shapechange is unmatched for versatility, gaining more power with each and every book with a monster in it, even with Polymorph errata.

Heck let's scale back to 8th level... Maze, with it's no save get-out-of-the-way powers, are excellent for shucking aside Clerical types, which typically don't have high Intelligence scores. Irresistable Dance, delivered with a Project Image, easily renders even the toughest of enemies useless. Discern Location, which is only trumped by Metafaculty. Mind Blank for the front lines, Dimensional Lock against teleport-happy opponents, Prismatic Wall for an obstacle that doesn't disappear with the first Disintegrate or Greater Dispel Magic.

I can go on, especially if we move outside of Core.