D&D 5E Psionic Thoughts

[steeldragons]

I would hate anything that involved "uses per day" as a general limitation, including a points system. I might as well make a sorcerer.

That was another thought. Given our selection of that class thus far, [Some Magic Creature] Bloodline or Wild Magic, "Psychic" seems to fit in under that umbrella fairly well. No new mechanics at all. Just the fluff change that this class and it's spells aren't "magic", it's psychic/mental energy/force powers. "Sorcery Points" become "Power- or Psi-Points". [EDIT: and Metamagic basically just stays the same, fluff change to "Meta-Mind" or whatever you want to call it. /EDIT]

I could very easily see them putting it out this way. It is not my preferred way. But I could certainly see it.

Hey, maybe they'll surprise us with something unique and special. I like the idea of having at-will powers, but that's all you get. Maybe they'll go that route, and bring back power points to make those at-will pseudo-cantrips a lot more powerful. Hm. Might work.

This is (or points to) something else I've thought could happen, at once a) Giving the class it's own "casting/manifesting" mechanic, and b) handily makes use of a particularly 5e mechanics already in place, Concentration. Give the classes/subclasses (and "anybody" Feat) their list of powers, at whataever rate. Everything is "at-will", what is tracked as they level up, as with spells, which ones/how many tricks they actually know/can use...but anything that is not a duration of "Instantaneous" (like most attacks would be) has a duration maximum and requires Concentration. Makes complete sense given the Psychic archetype (the character having to focus and strain to maintain their powers) and keeps the Psychic from stacking up layers and layers of power.

I have thought of, and remember from 1e, there was 1 particular defense that was, effectively, "up" all of the time. No reason we couldn't creature 1 or 2 of those types of [psychic defensive] things (at the "Cantrip" or Minor Talent level) that could, kind of, "subconsciously" always be active and would allow a Psychic to use a concentrating Defense power over top of it. But nothing else.

Then we could throw in, I'd put it very near if not 10th level, some class feature where they can concentrate on more than 1 effect at a time...or shift the first power to a subconscious level and concentrate on the second or something...to get our levitating herself -and maybe others- inside a forcefield telekinetic or the telepath maintaining their mental shields against a psychic attack while simultaneously sending a telepathic cry for help or probing the attacker's mind while they are focused on their attack, etc...). More than 2 effects at/after 15th, etc...

I could definitely see it working...and adds another DM/table-by-table option angle as, if a DM or table doesn't like or fully use the Concentration mechanic, then they know adding in "the Psychic" class or Feat might not be for them/something they're willing to include [as written].

 

[Inchoroi]

I liked Fralex's idea of a non spell-casting style of psionics and my first thought was to use the old Psychic combat attack and defense modes as the base of a monk style class.


For example at 1st level you would get your basic attack modes such as Ego Whip (melee range) and Mind Thrust (ranged attack). These would deal psychic damage that would scale up with level and after a few levels you would be able to spend a Power Point (like Ki points) to change the attack into either Mind Blast (cone with save or stun) or Psychic Crush (ranged aoe with save or pin).


The psychic defense could be Mental Barrier (temporary HP) or Thought Shield (add mental ability score to AC) with power point upgrade as a reaction to Tower of Iron Will (damage resistance) or Empty Mind (advantage on save).


The traditional psionic categories as others have mentioned would then function as the archetype to provide the non-combat utilities.

This gives me an idea.


Lets start with the basic 'psychic' ideas presented above (I like Fralex's work).

We've already got the six categories of psychic abilities:

• Psychokinesis- The ability to conjure energy and move objects mentally, at a distance.
• Psychoportation- The ability to mentally warp spacetime for instantaneous transportation through space or, in some cases, time.
• Psychometabolism- The ability to manipulate biological processes with but a thought to induce healing, adrenaline rushes, and other physiological boosts.
• Clairsentience- Also known as Extrasensory Perception. Grants a person special senses to access useful hidden information, most commonly about the future.
• Telepathy- The ability to touch other minds. Enables mental communication and mind control.
• Metacreativity- The ability to conjure and shape solid matter (or often just solid invisible force) using the mind. Mimes wish they were that good.

Each of these could be an archetype; however, I don't think that Psychoportation, nor Metacreativity, is a truly valid archetype, as they (since you choose the archetype at early levels) wouldn't be balanced if they get what their shtick is at the beginning (i.e. teleporting at such a low level; teleporting and creating stuff from nothing can be higher level stuff for the others). So, that narrows it down to four archetypes:

• Psychokinesis
• Psychometabolism
• Clairsentience
• Telepathy

This is a good number to have; less than the cleric or wizard, but more than others. I think we should base the archetypes off the sorcerer; there's a reason for this. The structure works with having expendable points (psi-points, I think, in this case). In addition, I think it is thematic to also include things similar to Invocations from warlock, things that make it easier to do the things you'd want to do as a psychic.

Base Class: Psychic
Hit Points: 1d6 per Psychic level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 6 + your Constitution modifier
Hit points at Higher Levels: 1d6 (or 4) + your Constitution modifier per psychic level after 1st

Proficiencies:
Armor: None
Weapons: Daggers, darts, slings, quarterstaffs, light crossbows
Tools: None

Saving Throws: Intelligence, Wisdom
Skills: Choose three from Arcana, Deception, Insight, Nature, and Religion

Psionics
You know three psychic techniques of your choice from the below choices. In addition, you have a number of psionic points (psi-points or psps for short) equal to your level + your intelligence modifier. You can expend them on the psychic techniques you know, and regain all your expended psi-points when you take a long rest.

You use your intelligence score whenever a psychic technique refers to your psychic casting score. In addition, you use your intelligence modifier whenever setting the saving throw DC for a psychic technique and when making an attack roll with one.

Psychic save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier
Psychic attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier

Psychic Disciplines
At 1st level, choose a psionic discipline, which describes the psychic techniques which you are innately talented with: Psychokinesis, Psychometabolism, Clairsentience, or Telepathy.

Your choice grants you features when you choose it at 1st level and again at 6th, 14th, and 18th level.

Psychic Talents
At second level, you expand your understanding of your chosen psychic techniques and your innate psychic talents. You learn 2 psychic talents from the list below, gaining an additional two talents at 10th and 17th level. You must meet all prerequisites for the talent you wish to learn.

Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.



All that's needed now is 6-10 psychic techniques (and the ways they expand based on the amount of psi-points you spend), about 15 or so psychic talents, and the specific details of the discipline.

 

[ceiling90]

You know, seeing someone do a multi-class archetype, maybe psionics shouldn't have a class per se, but could be archetypes added to classes. That would certainly make them unique, and significantly more interesting than the standard re-skinned wizard with power points - which is currently usurped by the sorcerer and the spell point system.

From the OP's thing, I completely agree, but DnD's magic system works with granularity with spell effects versus something like BESM's domains over things - which poses a problem. Let's say that a Telekinetic gets spell Telekinesis as his only ability in terms of what is current mainstream psionic representation (he can't fly or do psychometabolism) - but each possible effect that could be explained via telekinesis has to be explicitly spelled out and accounted. It also poses a problem that Telekinesis is a 5th level spell, and there's maybe two other lesser versions of the same spell - mage hand and uh... So what do you about that? That doesn't seem like it could fill out a whole 20 level class that just bases itself in the ability to control telekinesis.

So look at Super Boy (I'm not sure which is actually current), but one version doesn't have him flying, but he can jump really high, nigh invulnerable, and immensely strong. You know why? Telekinesis. He uses telekinetic force to augment his jumps, he has a very close almost skin of telekinetic force to keep him nigh invulnerable, and that same telekinetic skin gives him super strength. I mean he's a superhero and not necessarily an adventurer, but maybe, you get my idea. Would you make psionics more of a granularly explicit spell equals effect thing, or maybe a more here's an ability, and you can spend resources to very much change the effect of said ability - like you get Telekinesis but depending on how you spend your psi points you could make it a blast, a wave, a point blank aoe or maybe even fine manipulation of very small things. In a way, I think DnD and this edition doesn't like this on the fly change of effects based on single ability, instead it would be resort back to spell lists and leveled effects.

I apologize, I'm kinda rambling.

 

[Tanaka Chris]

Well, I'd like stuff from the books to come in
Thinking specifically of Jarlalxe's right hand man, Kimmuel?

How he gave Artemis Entreri a Kinetic Absorbing shield which allowed him to defeat Drizzt, one of those has a really nice flavour as it's something new. Good to cast on tanks before they rush in or to protect squishy casters.

Also, the main difference I'd see between them and casters would be that they won't need components and silence spells don't affect them. And a natural ability much like the Alert feat built in, how would you sneak up on someone who reads your mind unless you have a non-detection spell or mind blocking thing going on

 

[dwayne]

D&D Psionics What Will It Look Like in 5th Edition Dungeons and Dragons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2wRun3gglQ

 

[Fralex]

That was another thought. Given our selection of that class thus far, [Some Magic Creature] Bloodline or Wild Magic, "Psychic" seems to fit in under that umbrella fairly well. No new mechanics at all. Just the fluff change that this class and it's spells aren't "magic", it's psychic/mental energy/force powers. "Sorcery Points" become "Power- or Psi-Points". [EDIT: and Metamagic basically just stays the same, fluff change to "Meta-Mind" or whatever you want to call it. /EDIT]

I could very easily see them putting it out this way. It is not my preferred way. But I could certainly see it.

I'm actually currently playing a "psionic sorcerer" using the Psionic Discipline subclass I posted earlier (see link in first post). I'm level four by now, and so far, it's worked really well! All I've really done to make the magic feel psychic is change the spell casting ability to Intelligence, remove the need for material components, and add the ability to make your spells invisible to certain creatures. As you've pointed out, giving sorcerers the metamagic is a fine way to incorporate all those "pay some power points to augment this in certain ways" clauses the psionic spells had. Er, sorry, psionic powers. Totally different from spells!
Like the psionic monsters in the MM, I can now cast mage hand without the hand showing and cast any spell without components (with Subtle Spell). Plus I can do neat things like cause hallucinations with illusion magic and shoot people with evocation magic without giving away my position (I don't emit fire with burning hands, my targets just spontaneously burst into flames from the sheer power of my mind)! It's kind of like the sorcerer equivalent of the Way of Shadow; it gives the class a stealth option.
I purposefully picked spells that let me mimic traditional psychic powers like detect thoughts, but it's fascinating how any sorcerer spell can be made to feel psionic just by removing the visual effects of it. If psions don't get their own unique class, a sorcerer subclass is a good substitute. I notice we've also got an aforementioned psionic monk subclass on here under the name "way of the mind." If we don't do anything super-original with psionics, a psionic variant for several classes would be enough to cover it.

 

[steeldragons]

Cool! Good to know and sounds like it's bringing the fun. So that's what counts.

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

I agree that psionics are only worth doing if we're getting a different system to cover it. If we're just getting a sci-fi themed sorcerer, I'll pass. In my opinion, a good choice would be to have something similar to the Star Wars RPG (and also similar to 2E Psionics), where you're proficient in psionic powers and must roll to determine the effectiveness of your power. It would work really well with general proficiency rules in 5E, as I see it. Power points would be similar to Ki Points, improving already existing abilities or activating some specific class features.

 

[bogmad]

I'm not inclined to entirely design a class progression myself, but I'd definitely prefer a disctinct class with its own mechanics.

At will powers with a few more powerful extra bits added; minimal 1/day additions.
... does sound similar to the warlock, but I'd rather it be more akin to the similarity of wizard castings to the cleric, rather than straight refluffing of the warlock and that's it.

At what level would it fit to provide an ability to where you could spend hit points to super charge your talent/power, or cast without spending ki/power points? Presumably once per day.

 

[SkidAce]

I'm looking through the 2nd edition Skills and Powers version of Psionics (from Dark Sun revised).

And I'm not seeing a lot of problems converting. Flip the Mental THACO around like we always did anyway...use a 5E level progression for hp, abilities, feats etc. Keep sciences and devotions and PSP point gain equivalent to level.

Looks feasible. 1st and 2nd editions had the same level of to hit and AC so it kinda fits into bounded accuracy.

We'll see...