Psionics Balanced?

[Darklone]

As mentioned: Run the 4 encounters per day and psidudes aren't too strong. Run one per day and they shine. Run 20 per day and the whole group plays fighters.

 

[gnfnrf]

Alignment restriction is always not-nice, but this isn't really a problem, as well as the +3 BAB (meaning only that low-BAB classes can only enter at level 6 instead of 5... no big deal). BUT:
- Knowledge (psionics) 8 ranks. Only Wizards, Clerics with the Knowledge domain and psionic classes have this skill as a class skill. Meaning others have to take this as cross-class or spend feats (Able Learner comes to mind), and if they stay cross-class, they cannot enter until level 13. At this level, the power of the War Mind is... say, not that great. Wizards, Clerics and psi classes have to sacrifice their spellcasting/manifesting progression upon entering, or, for the Soulknife, their Mind Blade ability, and the 6 (!) powers they get in compensation don't really make up for this loss.

Check out the Duskblade as an excellent choice to qualify for War Mind. Full BAB and knowledge (psionics) as a class skill.

As to the original question, in normal play, psionics is not overpowered. Certainly, the overall power of the psion is highly sensitive to the expected and actual encounters per day in the campaign, moreso than the wizard. And certain powers (mostly pseudo errata'd in Complete Psionic) had save DC scaling issues.

But overall, having played a psion through two medium length campaigns, I felt the overall balance was about the same as with an arcane caster.

--
gnfnrf

 

[Nifft]

In my experience as a player and as a DM, 3.5e Psionics (those from the XPH, not the old 3.0e PsiHB, and ignoring the nerfs from the Complete Psionic) are very well balanced. Better than spellcasting. Why? Designers had fewer sacred cows to protect.

There are no 1st level powers as good as magic missile. There are no 3rd level powers as good as haste, particularly not as cast by a 5th level character.

Psions are better at: early summoning*, direct damage via energy**, personal buffs, flexibility.

Magic is better at: extended summoning, turning money into power, party buffs, game breakers.

Cheers, -- N

*) Astral constructs have more HP and do more damage, but that's all. Their spell-like abilities are also just damage. Even if confined to the SRD, a Wizard's Outsiders can generate a variety of effects, including healing. Later, Wizards get access to the various planar binding spells, and in the end game gate. The Psion has no answer to these.

**) Wizards get Force damage via magic missile early and untyped damage via horrid wilting later. It's hard to overstate the strength of horrid wilting targeting only your foes. Psions can take a feat to get similar (but more restricted) targeting via energy missile, but the damage type is always energy. Don't bring up concussion blast, it's painfully expensive for what it does.

 

[timbannock]

As mentioned: Run the 4 encounters per day and psidudes aren't too strong. Run one per day and they shine. Run 20 per day and the whole group plays fighters.

QFT

It's worth noting that psionics are overpowered if the players use it and the GM doesn't, save for ensuring their magic items for the psionic players to pick up.

If the enemies can't/don't use some of the same tactics, then really anything the players can/do use in that case is overpowered.

Case-in-point: I don't know magic very well, especially divine magic. Therefore, my players who run clerics/druids/etc. tend to shine in many encounters.

Then I throw them against an evil cleric. Or a golem. Or any creature with SR.

It evens out nicely

 

[Rae ArdGaoth]

Thanks, I needed to hear all that. You're absolutely right, I haven't given them a chance to become exhausted yet. And throwing psionic enemies at them is a good way to balance it, even if they are unbalanced (which doesn't seem so true anymore).

 

[Nifft]

Thanks, I needed to hear all that. You're absolutely right, I haven't given them a chance to become exhausted yet. And throwing psionic enemies at them is a good way to balance it, even if they are unbalanced (which doesn't seem so true anymore).

Psionic NPCs can be unbalanced, if you play them like they know they're only going to live for one fight.

Best suggestion I've seen: give the Psionic NPCs only half to 1/3 of their power points to spend before they run away.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Rae ArdGaoth]

Good idea. Thanks again.

 

[timbannock]

Thanks, I needed to hear all that. You're absolutely right, I haven't given them a chance to become exhausted yet. And throwing psionic enemies at them is a good way to balance it, even if they are unbalanced (which doesn't seem so true anymore).

Psionic enemies are key. If you have psionic treasures in the game, you should give the villains a psionic ally or two that can use those treasures against the PCs (before the PCs inevitably swipe said loot).

And don't forget: psionic villains will have less opportunity to use their full repertoire of powers. That's actually an advantage: they can blow the maximum amount of PPs on each power they DO use, and thus can ramp up certain powers' DCs, damage, duration, etc.

It's not unbalanced (the PCs could do the same thing), but certainly adds an extra edge, making fights more challenging, and (hopefully) more fun.

P.S. Use some of the rules from Hyperconscious (Malhavoc Press). That'll teach your psionic-loving players!

 

[Fifth Element]

Is it just me, or is psionics really overpowered?

It's not just you. I'm really overpowered too.

But I don't think psionics is as well.

 

[blargney the second]

Like Nifft said, 3.5 psionics are better balanced than spellcasting.

Just remember that you can not manifest a power using more power points than your manifester level. If you ignore that, all hell breaks loose.
-blarg