D&D 5E Psionics in Tasha

[Mistwell]

Least hated? I very much doubt that. I'd really want to see some evidence, because every poll on this sort of approach I've seen, over four editions (because it is an approach some people insist on), has been pretty negative on it (it's usually either most-unpopular, or second-most after some particularly bizarre approach).

It's a simple approach, but it's a bad one. I'm not against Psionic spells existing - but to make them how Psionics works is rubbish.

It's not a question of over 4 editions, it's only a question of what the customer base, as a generalization, likes right now. And right now, the majority of the customer base never even played a prior edition and do not appear to have any attachment to psionics as something other than spells They did do polls, they did get feedback, and this appears to be the least objectionable to this particular customer base for this edition.

And they don't need to show you their cards by the way. Their data is collected for them to make decisions. Their data wouldn't change your preferences anyway, so what would be the purpose of "providing you evidence"?

 

[Mistwell]

If by least hated, you mean most hated, I agree. We disagreed on the exact way that psionic should be introduced as psionic, but almost no one said psionics should just be magic.

What "almost no one"? THEY conducted the poll, not you. You didn't take a poll of a meaningful population of current customers of 5e and determine what people answered, they did. Apparently the current customer base, which is mostly composed of people who never played D&D prior to 5e, did not in fact have a problem with psionics as spells.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Neither does magic, but we understand that. If we didn't, we could not play wizards and such in the game.

We understand magic in D&D 5e - it's whatever the people who wrote the rules say it is.

And the same goes for psionics.

As opposed to, say, the average speed of a dog sled, which we can compare to real world data, and say "yup, that's way off".

 

[Mistwell]

D&D Designer A: So, we have this new thing we have to put in the game. Psionics.

D&D Designer B: Hmm... so, let's design something!

A: Yeah, let's do that!

B: What should we do? Something cool? Something new?

A: That sounds awesome! We should do something reflecting the long heritage of psionics in D&D!

....5 second pause....

A&B Together: Long peals of laughter

B: That was funny! So, spells?

A: Yep, spells.

It was more like this:

A: Here is this new system we've designed, let's see what people think!
Fans: We hate it, we want something easy like everything else.
B: OK here is this other new system we've designed, let's see what people think!
Fans: We hate it, we want something easy like everything else.
A&B: OK here is this third new system which is easy and pretty similar to other things we've done!
Fans: We hate it, we want something even easier which is just like everything else
A&B: Fine. Spells. It's just like spells.
Fans: Good enough!

I mean, why are we pretending they didn't try, over and over again, for years now, to create a new system people liked? Why are we pretending fans didn't reject those new systems over and over again?

 

[Leatherhead]

Oh my, people are disappointed with the direction of 5e psionics because they don't match up with their own niche preferred take on them from one of four or more different styles that nobody could agree on?

I am so shocked, who could have predicted such a thing happening?

 

[Undrave]

Sadly I don't drink so I wouldn't know.

I don't drink either, as a general rule, but I've tried a few things from time to time. Tequila is probably the worse thing I've ever drank so I would avoid it at all cost. I don't know how people can drink that crap! It tastes like turpentine!

I mean that's valid. If arcane and divine had been more distinct, then it wouldn't be awkward to make psionics more distinct too. But they aren't, so it would.

And with such mechanical differentiation one must always ask what is actually achieved by it. It needs to actually emulate something that is happening in the fiction and it needs to evoke right thematic feeling. So I'm not quite sure what that would even mean in this context.

What's added by including this distinction?

It just adds complexity and makes the game less accessible for little (if any) gain.

Those distinctions were present in 3.5 and (mechanically) did nothing (mechanically) other than create confusion and require constant explanation if a spell was arcane or divine (when it appeared on both lists).

I get it for 'flavor' purposes, but really, if all you want is flavor, you can simply add that flavor in yourself without the mechanical needlessness of such a distinction.

I want them to be there for narrative reasons. I think it's lame that a Cleric and a Wizard could end up with the same spells, or doing the same thing and both using the spell slot system. I don't even like the school of magic classification (a lot of them feel like fictional classification, but others feel arbitrarily meta in their classification).

I think the game would be more flavourful if Arcane Magic was better defined and had actual LIMITS to what it can do, and Divine Magic and Primal Magic and, eventually, Psionic, all had their clear field of expertise with very little overlap. I don't want to strictly go back to 'only Cleric can Heal', but maybe the expression of the healing would be different: for exemple, say a Cleric gets Healing Word and variations that work at a distance, an Arcane class uses Transmutation to repair damage on contact, and a Druid has improved variations on Goodberry (or like, a magical spring of healing water?) that take an action from the recipient but can be stocked up.

Stuff like that. They could even still all use the sacrosanct Spell Slot system (not a fan myself but whatever).

I also feel like a Cleric's Domain should have a bigger impact on their Spell List than it does now, at least twice what it is now.

But considering that this isn't what 5e is doing, I'm fine (if not enthused) with Psionic Spells.

 

[Undrave]

It was more like this:

A: Here is this new system we've designed, let's see what people think!
Fans: We hate it, we want something easy like everything else.
B: OK here is this other new system we've designed, let's see what people think!
Fans: We hate it, we want something easy like everything else.
A&B: OK here is this third new system which is easy and pretty similar to other things we've done!
Fans: We hate it, we want something even easier which is just like everything else
A&B: Fine. Spells. It's just like spells.
Fans: Good enough!

I mean, why are we pretending they didn't try, over and over again, for years now, to create a new system people liked? Why are we pretending fans didn't reject those new systems over and over again?

Augh... I LOVED the Psionic Dice concept... but people are complaining about 'learning a new system' really disappoint me in ways I struggle to put into word. It really sucks that anything adventurous is shot down for being 'too complicated' when it was literally just a DICE you keep in front of you! BLEH.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

I like the spell system. It works well enough for my purposes.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I mean, why are we pretending they didn't try, over and over again, for years now, to create a new system people liked? Why are we pretending fans didn't reject those new systems over and over again?

Designer A: So, the people didn't like what we designed.

Designer B: Hmmm... could the fault be in our design?

A&B Together: Peals of laughter.

Designer A: Good one! As if we can design poorly. They're probably holding it wrong.

Designer B: So, spells?

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

If I do say so myself, I make a mean tequila/mezcal old fashioned with a rim of smoked sea salt, using either a lemon or lime wedge to wet the rim.

I heard it goes well with tequila...

But back to the subject at hand, honestly, I don't see the benefit of keeping psionics separate from the existing magic system.

I liked the psi-die quite a bit. It added a neat mechanic that made it feel different without requiring a giant new susbsystem.

Augh... I LOVED the Psionic Dice concept... but people are complaining about 'learning a new system' really disappoint me in ways I struggle to put into word. It really sucks that anything adventurous is shot down for being 'too complicated' when it was literally just a DICE you keep in front of you! BLEH.