Publisher Opinions of FFE Events?

The Sigil said:

I can't put it all on the editors... though there is some fault there.

The editor of a work can't be expected to be thoroughly familiar with every bit of OGC out there - he might not have heard of the source of a monster, and would have no way of knowing if it is OGC or not. Citing your sources is on the WRITER, not the editor - because no editor can possibly know all the possible sources the writer drew from.

I have a library of literally a few hundred d20 sources now... it's not my editor's job to be aware of all of them - it's my job to cite sources - preferably by dropping the reference into the S15 of my submission immediately before I add something to my written work (which I do, FWIW).

--The Sigil

An editor should be familiar with what's in the SRD. Any monster spell, class, or feat that does not come from there an editor should flag as "needs to be OGC, where did the writer get it from so we can be sure to get the section 15 right?" If that can't be answered then it should not be used.

This covers the monsters.
 

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And to my eye the most glaring problem: Monster Manual 2 specifically states that it is not OGL. Take a look, they put it there in black and, umm, sort of a beigey color I guess. That is actually one of the reasons I didn't run out and buy it, choosing Tome of Horrors instead. Any creatures that might interest me in MM2 are from mythology anyway, so I can come up with my own stats if I really feel the need to.

When the source specifically says it is not OGL then there is no excuse whatsoever, neither for the authors, the editors, nor for the publishers.

The Auld Grump, ah, that's better, I'm feeling properly grumpy again....
 
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TheAuldGrump said:
And to my eye the most glaring problem: Monster Manual 2 specifically states that it is not OGL. Take a look, they put it there in black and, umm, sort of a beigey color I guess. That is actually one of the reasons I didn't run out and buy it, choosing Tome of Horrors instead. Any creatures that might interest me in MM2 are from mythology anyway, so I can come up with my own stats if I really feel the need to.

Actually there is one or two monsters in the MM2 which are OGC, WOTC re-used someonelses stuff. Get this, WOTC messed up Section 15. So..., the company in question could insist WOTC change the book within the cure period or be forced to destroy all their copies of the MMII.
 

smetzger said:


Actually there is one or two monsters in the MM2 which are OGC, WOTC re-used someonelses stuff. Get this, WOTC messed up Section 15. So..., the company in question could insist WOTC change the book within the cure period or be forced to destroy all their copies of the MMII.

Actually, as I understand it, they received permission in such a manner that they didn't need to include an OGC statement. It is still rather funny that they went through the trouble of including it and then got it wrong.

Patrick
 

More Jim Ward fun!

OK, first of all, I have a 15 year old boy who is writing, using the SRD and OGC/OGL.
Guess what?
This testosterone laden, adreniline fueled, hyperactive, ADD little monkey can understand the concept of "Don't create anything referencing ANYTHING but the SRD."
Why can't FFE's writers, editors and proofers?

15 year old boy.

That sums it up, right there.
 

I was a little disconcerted over the quality and adherence to the OGL by FFE at first, but I chalked it up to a "learning curve" and getting used to the business. Since I have not purchased an FFE product in some time (not since before they were forced to remove "Core Rulebook" from their products), I figured they had ironed out those little compliance issues.

Here it is, over a year later, and I am amazed that no real actions were taken to rectify this until WotC had to lean on FFE publicly. Bad form. Especially from Jim Ward and crew who out to know better. Perhaps they've learned their lesson, though, and they will make every effort to stick to the SRD on future products.

Mr. Ward seems like a really nice fellow, too. Pity. I was hoping for some rock-solid, good-quality d20 material from his company to add to my library.

How many folks will be willing to trust them again with their money is another issue altogether. A sad situation, to be sure.

Just my $0.02.

BTW, I really think that he ought to at least be able to use Drawmij, since it's his name spelled backwards. That one just seems weird to me. But, it's probably a WotC add-on to the many other infractions. It might never have come up otherwise. :rolleyes:
 

smetzger said:


Actually there is one or two monsters in the MM2 which are OGC, WOTC re-used someonelses stuff. Get this, WOTC messed up Section 15. So..., the company in question could insist WOTC change the book within the cure period or be forced to destroy all their copies of the MMII.

Only WOTC could enforce the license.. since it is their license. All anyone else could do officially and legally, is sue for a copyright violation on their products. Although I think I'd personally want to sue and get money, then just cost another company money to destroy products and never see any of it. This coming from a personal perspective and not a company line.
 

Warlord Ralts said:
This testosterone laden, adreniline fueled, hyperactive, ADD little monkey can understand the concept of "Don't create anything referencing ANYTHING but the SRD."

Betcher kid doesn't inappropriately quote EnWorld reviewers, either. (;

Dunno -- If JW whinges so much about the OGL/SRD/BLT/PDQ, mebbe he should design his own fantasy RPG. I mean, nobody **owes** him the right to take advantage of the d20 bandwagon.


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^
 

There is no way in the world that designers and editors can be expected to do their job and keep track of the thousands of legal details the ogl dectates. These were honest mistakes that have caused Fast Forward to pull product off the shelves. Life happens.

Wow. I am really sad to see that.

First of all, it is flat out absurd. THAT IS THEIR JOB. Thats like saying you cant expect editors too catch spelling mistakes because it is too hard to keep track of all those thousands of words in the english language. Designers, editors, producers, whoever your company designates, SOMEONE has to be concerned and pay attention to d20/OGL compliance. So THAT IS someone's job. Sound like FFE doesnt have the proper checks in place to ensure compliance. Or they just figured it wasnt worth the time since no one was getting busted.

Second, the cavalier attitude is disturbing. Those were glaring and repeated mistakes and I had seen them called out about them in various discussion lists that you have to check if you are a part of this industry. So they cant claim they didnt have notice. Maybe WotC hadnt busted them before, but the community certainly had.

I think a lot of publishers have been a bit surprised, usually pleaseantly, at how much slack WotC is cutting us, collectively. Many of us have been waiting to see if WotC would ever really enforce the OGL. Frankly, it was getting a little annoying to see abuses go uncorrected, so much so that it was looking like the official message from WotC was that "compliance really didnt matter that much. Go ahead and do a Mongoose and move from good designations to crappy designations." That was the feeling by many. Why were many of us busting our ass and spending time complying when others were not caring? The answer is we did it because it was the right thing to do. It is nice to see some teeth to the rules. That will certainly encourage people to do a better job of compliance. Which will lead to better products. So in the end this is a good thing. I do hate to see someone become the cautionary tale, though. I wish people had just spent more time with this issue and not had problems.

Third, I just cant see why anyone wouldnt spend time worrying about and mastering compliance. There is no excuse for it. WotC has given us the keys to the kingdom and all we have to do is follow a few simple rules. SO FOLLOW THE FREAKING RULES! Learn them. Understand them. THEY ARE YOUR LIVELYHOOD. Those rules are the reason you get to be a d20 company. And it isnt like you cant learn quickly. There are tons of resources out there. ENWorld alone is a wealth of info. The discussion lists are also great. Heck, we have discussed compliance issues so many times my brain is starting to bleed. I've posted how I do it. Others have posted how they do it. We have called people out, used specific examples, solved problems, brainstormed. Many of us have agreed to review OGL designations and make suggestions. It is a friendly community willing to help others. There is no excuse for not being more on top of things. And it was common knowledge to anyone who was paying even the tiniest bit of attention that MM2 monsters are off limits.

I dont know Jim, but I really hope he was angry and wrote that post in haste. Because there is no way any reasonable person could say those things after calm reflection and mean them. I'm sorry he had to be the guy that got the hammer. It was coming. Maybe he is bitter because there have been other abusers and his is the company that got hit. But that is like the speeder doing 70 in a school zone complaining that other people were speeding too. It doesnt get you out of the ticket.

Clark
 

smetzger said:


Actually there is one or two monsters in the MM2 which are OGC, WOTC re-used someonelses stuff. Get this, WOTC messed up Section 15. So..., the company in question could insist WOTC change the book within the cure period or be forced to destroy all their copies of the MMII.

Yes, exactly two, both from Sword and Sorcery, both with the names changed.

In all honesty I don't know why they are there, unless its to say 'Look what you can do'. As for WotC getting the OGL wrong, well, they haven't had a lot of practice... :p

The Auld Grump, who will have to return his borrowed, coffee stained MM2 back to its owner tomorrow.
 

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