Puppy-Kicking PCs, OOC, part 2

[Serpenteye]

Hey all,

I hate to do this after taking 2 days to post (real life sucks sometimes), but I don’t want to resolve Alicia’s and Aligor’s actions until I’m sure that they’re doing what they said they were doing.

Serpenteye: Your Greatsword isn’t a weapon with a built in capability to trip, so, although we can say your using it to do the maneuver for the sake of cinematic flair, you still have to take the same penalties as if you were using your feet, i.e. provoking an AOO. I can’t find anything that says a maneuver that provokes an AOO is “safe” for large creatures using reach, and it doesn’t seem fair that it should be. So unless you can point to something that contradicts my ruling, he’ll still get an AOO against you. I think trip is most useful when you have allies who can take advantage of his downed position. So, knowing he’ll get an AOO, then you’ll get one when he rises, then he’ll take a 5’ step and attack (most likely), is the trip what you want to do?

Yes, the sword was only for cinematic flair.

I was under the impression that one could only be attacked by an enemy in melee when one is within the reach of an enemy, I don't really have much of a grasp on the rules but I figured that would make sense . Attacking an enemy with a natural weapon from a superior reach doesn't place the attacker within the reach of the defender even though a part of the attackers body enters the defenders square (ex. one can not ready an action to attack a creature with reach when it attacks the subject with a natural weapon, it simply isn't "there"). Even though an untrained trip attempt normally provokes an aoo Alicia is too far away to touch. Thus, in summary, I paraphrase the words of the famous rapper "'Can't touch me."

(I know, I know, I'm an obnoxious little man , but I'm not going to argue the point. If you rule that making the trip-attempt would be unpractical (provoke an aoo), Alicia will simply make a normal PA RA attack.
The reason I wanted to trip was to inflict an aoo when he rose from a prone position. An aoo that, thanks to Large and in Charge, would push him out of her reach. When he then would try to attack her again she would get yet another aoo on him. It would be two attacks for the price of one, and with the first of those attacks she would get a +4 to hit from attacking someone in a prone position )

 

[Telsar]

Serpenteye: don't you hate rules disputes? The problem, as I see it, all Large creatures (including enemies against normal sized PCs), as long as they can take a step back, would get one of the major benefits of the feat Improved Trip, and it could also apply to disarm and sunder, negating the need for Improved Disarm and Sunder, too. That's just too much benefit just for being large, and I know normal size PCs would hate it if every intelligent large creature used those tactics, and of course, being intelligent, they would.

The simplest solution is, those actions (trip, disarm, sunder) still provoke an AOO. Another solution would be to say those maneuvers can't be used at range, even with reach. I prefer the first one, just because it allows those with reach at range to still have the same options as normal size characters.

Anyway, that's my ruling. I can't give some of the benefit of three feats for free. I did forget your Large and In Charge, although it didn't matter when handsome-guy ran up to you as you had already used your AOO on the tumbling robed guy. And that's another problem with your plan... you only get one AOO per round without combat reflexes. You can't AOO when he gets up, then do it again when he approaches.

So... when I get a moment , I'll resolve it with no trip, but with a step back and your LaiC feat might prevent him from reaching you (or at least from reaching, and attacking). Although the robed guy is before him. I'll assume you'd save you AOO to use on armed guy instead of robed-guy.

Edit: Grrrr... no, that's wrong too. If he's 10' away (from you stepping back), he just needs a 5' step to attack, which doesn't provoke an AOO, so LaiC doesn't apply. Robed guy probably didn't need a tumble or AOO from you either last round, being able to move 5' and attack. *sigh* Someday I'll figure out these rules, I know I will. :\

 

[Fangor the Fierce]

Hey all,
I hate to do this after taking 2 days to post (real life sucks sometimes), but I don’t want to resolve Alicia’s and Aligor’s actions until I’m sure that they’re doing what they said they were doing. Fangor: unless “taking the potion” didn’t mean drinking it, you listed two standard actions there… readying to attack with your urgrosh, and drinking the potion. Also, the room is quite cluttered with tables and furniture, being an antique shop, so there’s no way Hex can charge you, he’ll just have to walk up to you. So… are you readying to attack him when he does so, then drinking the potion on your next round? Or something else? And yes, there’s a long counter you can put your back behind right next to you, but… one of them can take an extra round to move behind it to flank you, and you’ll have cover against that person.

DAMMIT again. Well, his intention was to use the move action to grab the potion only, not drink it. Hence the reference to grabbing the potion in his offhand. That would free up his main hand to wield the urgrosh if he needed to use it against a charge. But now that you described the inside of Boone's, I guess things might change. He would like to ask the mighty DM for a ruling. I do not know how this is possible, but its worth the risk. What kind of action would it be to quickly draw the potion and possibly be able to move. Not drink it, but only to grab it and continue moving. Aligor does have the Quick Draw feat for weapons, but would like to know the ruling for grabbing a potion and taking a move action as well.... Yeah I know, kinda confusing, but very probable in my mind. He is adept at the skill of quickly grabbing his gear, and thus would probably be able to do the same thing with potions readily set out. Ruling please....

 

[Telsar]

DAMMIT again. Well, his intention was to use the move action to grab the potion only, not drink it. Hence the reference to grabbing the potion in his offhand. That would free up his main hand to wield the urgrosh if he needed to use it against a charge. But now that you described the inside of Boone's, I guess things might change. He would like to ask the mighty DM for a ruling. I do not know how this is possible, but its worth the risk. What kind of action would it be to quickly draw the potion and possibly be able to move. Not drink it, but only to grab it and continue moving. Aligor does have the Quick Draw feat for weapons, but would like to know the ruling for grabbing a potion and taking a move action as well.... Yeah I know, kinda confusing, but very probable in my mind. He is adept at the skill of quickly grabbing his gear, and thus would probably be able to do the same thing with potions readily set out. Ruling please....

I have to assume you intend to also ready an attack, or drink the potion, or some other action. Otherwise, there's no reason you can't do two move-actions: grab the potion, and make a standard move up to 30' with your round (Note, Hex and Leeza are still standing in front of the door, so you couldn't leave Boone's.) But I'm afraid my ruling is quickdraw lets you quickly draw weapons, not stored items, and definitely not items or weapons you have to pick up. I could make up a feat that would allow such a thing, but that wouldn't help you right now. So you can make the 2 move equivalent actions (grab potion, move up to 30'), but not also attack or drink the potion. Sorry.

 

[Fangor the Fierce]

I have to assume you intend to also ready an attack, or drink the potion, or some other action. Otherwise, there's no reason you can't do two move-actions: grab the potion, and make a standard move up to 30' with your round (Note, Hex and Leeza are still standing in front of the door, so you couldn't leave Boone's.) But I'm afraid my ruling is quickdraw lets you quickly draw weapons, not stored items, and definitely not items or weapons you have to pick up. I could make up a feat that would allow such a thing, but that wouldn't help you right now. So you can make the 2 move equivalent actions (grab potion, move up to 30'), but not also attack or drink the potion. Sorry.

Don't be sorry, I wanted the correct answer, as I am dming a game and would like to know the correct ruling if a player presented this to me as well. So for his actions, he would grab the potion (Move action) and then move as far away from the two as he can, possibly putting himself into the corner. Hopefully, fingers crossed, that would mean that it would buy him one round, for hopefully some reinforcements or for him to drink the potion and then fight. While he moves to the corner, he would use his Quick Draw feat to grab his Urgrosh and have it out. (No readied action, as he has used his actions up) As the last part of his round, he goes into rage as well. Just to be on the safe side,

 

[Guilt Puppy]

Wow, it's been a while, especially in a game as fast as this.

So: I finally have internet access to spend on gaming, again. Of course, I've also fallen amazingly far behind in this game. Alev has, I have no doubt, been written off. Possibly replaced (although is there even a limited roster for this game?)

Anyway, I'll try to catch up (tonight was spent catching up on the game I'm running, which naturally has to come first.) Just wondering, is there room for the return of Alev, is it better to wait for a down moment, and what (in short, if that's even possible ) has been happening?

Apologies for the drop-off being greater and longer than announced, btw -- I didn't anticipate quite how many things could go wrong over the past two months.

 

[Serpenteye]

Serpenteye: don't you hate rules disputes?

And sometimes I like them too much . I completely accept your ruling, though. My tactics were probably too complicated for poor Alicia anyway, "hack" and "slash" are pretty much the limits of her tactical options.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

Probably waiting for Lydia to respond, I imagine.

Yes, I'm in a holding pattern. I'll post actions for that time frame here soon, and for the flashback, but I don't see him doing much of anything other than admiring the view as goes about searching.

 

[Telsar]

Wow, it's been a while, especially in a game as fast as this.

So: I finally have internet access to spend on gaming, again. Of course, I've also fallen amazingly far behind in this game. Alev has, I have no doubt, been written off. Possibly replaced (although is there even a limited roster for this game?)

Anyway, I'll try to catch up (tonight was spent catching up on the game I'm running, which naturally has to come first.) Just wondering, is there room for the return of Alev, is it better to wait for a down moment, and what (in short, if that's even possible ) has been happening?

Apologies for the drop-off being greater and longer than announced, btw -- I didn't anticipate quite how many things could go wrong over the past two months.

Welcome back, GP,

Fast? We've gone through two days game time In a little over 3 months.

I never wrote you off, Alev has been sleeping peacefully at the groups camp in the forest north of the city. As for what Alev would know is happening, after most of the group decided to hide out, out of town, in the forest for the night, Alicia spotted a golem-like creature made of sticks and branches, she hurt it a bit, but then it hurt her a lot. After she backed away, it lost interest and wandered back into the forest, and you guys were generally happy to see it go. You probably slept through the decision in the morning when Lydia and Sunedilar decided to go meet with the dwarf Aligor to find out where the ruins are that he's mentioned to you, and you probably also slept through a female dwarf invading your camp, and taking Alicia away for a bit. What probably did wake you up was the sound of a dog or wolf howling in the distance, in this post , not that it would be any safer for you to investigate it then Gwyn decided it was, but that's probably what woke you. When you come out of the tent, no one's in sight, until hiding Gwyn reveals himself to you. If you have anything you want to do IC, I'll post what I just said there, and you can go from there.

My tactics were probably too complicated for poor Alicia anyway, "hack" and "slash" are pretty much the limits of her tactical options.

Please don't think you have to play Alicia stupid when it comes to combat tactics... I'm sure she's been in enough brawls to know a thing or two, even with her Intelligence. I just didn't want to give large creatures even more of an advantage than they already have. Feel free to trip, disarm, or whatever, as long as you don't mind the hinderances normal-sized characters take.

 

[Fangor the Fierce]

Hey guys and gals, I am on vacation, which is much needed right about now. I am currently trying to find different places to get wireless connectivity, but can't really post right now. Got questions....

Telsar, since both Leeza and Hex thrrew daggers at me, I am wondering if they any other weapons currently drawn right now...

I am thinking that since he is down to his last few HP's, he's not wanting to die much right now. Did you count the gain in HP for going into Rage? I don't think they were mentioned. I am hoping you say that theycurrently don't have their weapons drawn... That would HOPEFULLY mean that they can't threaten him, if he decides to withdraw. Your ruling please...