D&D 5E Quarterstaff, shield and polearm master

[Hayato]

The strange case of the quarterstaff.

Quarterstaff: 1d6 (versatile 1d8) + STR. Using with a one hand, you can apply the Fighting Style Dueling that gives +2 bonus to damage roll. In addition, it is possible to apply the Polearm Master feat, which makes you use your bonus action to make an extra attack.

The problem, in my view, is that you can use the combination of fighting style along with feat and shield. Compared to a greatsword, this combo gives 51.5 DPR (4d6+20+8+1d4+5+2 = 51,5) while a greatsword gives 52 DPR (both Fighter LVL 20).

The combination brings to you a better Armor Class (at least you get +2 because of the shield, up to +5 with magical shield) and if you have a +1 magic weapon, you'll deal more damage than greatsword.

I believe that when he includes the quarterstaff in the feat was intended to be used with both hands, like glaive. However, there is a Sage Advice saying that is possible using with only one hand, but I believe they never imagined this bizarre and unreal combination.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

In my game, quarterstaves are two handed weapons.

The sage advice will confirm what the PHB rules say, but DMs are free to make houserules for the sake of balance, realism, or any other reason.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I believe that when he includes the quarterstaff in the feat was intended to be used with both hands, like glaive.

I agree, but then I doubt they put much thought into feats in general.

 

[rgoodbb]

As a DM, I agree with you. It should really be 2 handed.

As a Player, I wish to want to wish to want to strongly take on the sage advice rules and get away with it.

Does that make me a bad person?

 

[Charlaquin]

Frankly, it’s weird that the quarterstaff is versatile in the first place.

 

[Mort]

The strange case of the quarterstaff.

Quarterstaff: 1d6 (versatile 1d8) + STR. Using with a one hand, you can apply the Fighting Style Dueling that gives +2 bonus to damage roll. In addition, it is possible to apply the Polearm Master feat, which makes you use your bonus action to make an extra attack.

The problem, in my view, is that you can use the combination of fighting style along with feat and shield. Compared to a greatsword, this combo gives 51.5 DPR (4d6+20+8+1d4+5+2 = 51,5) while a greatsword gives 52 DPR (both Fighter LVL 20).

The combination brings to you a better Armor Class (at least you get +2 because of the shield, up to +5 with magical shield) and if you have a +1 magic weapon, you'll deal more damage than greatsword.

I believe that when he includes the quarterstaff in the feat was intended to be used with both hands, like glaive. However, there is a Sage Advice saying that is possible using with only one hand, but I believe they never imagined this bizarre and unreal combination.

I had a thread on a few weeks ago about - how the heck do you picture a one handed quarterstaff wielder?

Only example anyone could give was Gandalf from Lord of the Rings where he waives his staff around while also using his sword - but even there it's more a distraction for the sword strike vs. the fighting style. Thematically, this is just weird.

All that said - it's not really broken, it's actually mostly underpowered. Even in this instance, are you giving the great-sword fighter great weapon master (polearm master is a great feat so the great weapon master power discussion is lessened here)?

That would look more like 8d6 (great weapon fighting: reroll 1 and 2 ( so average is avg is 8.66 vs 7) +20+40 = 94.64 (depending on AC etc.) +5 AC over 44 points of DPR starts looking like a pretty tough decision.

[Edit] as shown down below, the DPR really does need to be vs a specific AC to account for the -5 fro GWM otherwise the DPR is too skewed in favor of GWM - so look below for more accurate numbers.

To sum up. I have a problem thematically but not mechanically - so if a player asked, I'd probably provisionally allow it.

 

[Oofta]

As a DM, I agree with you. It should really be 2 handed.

As a Player, I wish to want to wish to want to strongly take on the sage advice rules and get away with it.

Does that make me a bad person?

No. Which doesn't mean you are not a bad person.

I think this is why we have DMs and house rules. Wielding a quarterstaff and a shield is silly. In addition if you're going to allow people to thwack people with the butt end of a weapon you're carrying in one hand (which actually is a legitimate tactic), there's no reason to limit it to the quarterstaff.

Personally I've added a half-staff for a one-handed d6 chunk of wood, a quarterstaff is 2-handed only.

 

[Krachek]

Polearm master is the only one feat allowing an extra attack.
And all the imaginary of fighting hero suddenly turn around that feat:

Paladin wield quaterstaff and shield.
Hexblade summon halberd.
Raging & reckless Barbarian use glaive.

Maybe I miss read classic books, and Excalibur was a quatterstaff, and stormbringer a halberd?

 

[Dausuul]

Let's compare an 8th-level fighter with greatsword and GWM to an 8th-level fighter with quarterstaff, shield, and Polearm Mastery. Figure a typical enemy has AC 13.

Greatsword fighter: Base attack is +8 twice/round for 2d6+5, rerolling 1s and 2s. That's DPR 21.333 (13.333 per hit x2 attacks x0.8 hits per attack). Add Great Weapon Mastery, and it's 25.667 (23.333 per hit x2 attacks x0.55 hits per attack). AC is 18.

Polearm master: Base attack is +8 twice/round for 1d6+7, and +8 once/round for 1d4+7. That's DPR 24.4 (10.5 per hit x2 attacks, plus 9.5 per hit x1 attack, all x0.8 hits per attack). AC is 20.

So, the greatsword fighter has about the same DPR (the slight difference could easily be tipped one way or the other by monster AC or other factors), and doesn't have to use a bonus action to get there. She also gets a bonus action attack whenever she drops a foe. Against that, the polearm master has +2 AC and gets a free reaction attack whenever an enemy enters his/her reach.

I'd say it really comes down to the +2 AC. Everything else balances out pretty well, but the AC tips the scales in favor of the polearm master. It's not an overwhelming advantage, but it's certainly going to be noticeable.

 

[Mort]

Let's compare an 8th-level fighter with greatsword and GWM to an 8th-level fighter with quarterstaff, shield, and Polearm Mastery. Figure a typical enemy has AC 13.

Greatsword fighter: Base attack is +8 twice/round for 2d6+5, rerolling 1s and 2s. That's DPR 21.333 (13.333 per hit x2 attacks x0.8 hits per attack). Add Great Weapon Mastery, and it's 25.667 (23.333 per hit x2 attacks x0.55 hits per attack). AC is 18.

Polearm master: Base attack is +8 twice/round for 1d6+7, and +8 once/round for 1d4+7. That's DPR 24.4 (10.5 per hit x2 attacks, plus 9.5 per hit x1 attack, all x0.8 hits per attack). AC is 20.

So, the greatsword fighter has about the same DPR (the slight difference could easily be tipped one way or the other by monster AC or other factors), and doesn't have to use a bonus action to get there. She also gets a bonus action attack whenever she drops a foe. Against that, the polearm master has +2 AC and gets a free reaction attack whenever an enemy enters his/her reach.

I'd say it really comes down to the +2 AC. Everything else balances out pretty well, but the AC tips the scales in favor of the polearm master. It's not an overwhelming advantage, but it's certainly going to be noticeable.

For comparison - lets say the polearm master instead goes the traditional route, with a halberd and without the shield. Let's also say he goes damage intensive instead of sentinel and takes GWM as a feat too.

With the same assumptions, that looks like this:

Base attack is +7 twice/round (strength is likely lower) for 1d10+14, and +7 once/round for 1d4+14. That's DPR 28.8(20.3 per hit x2 attacks, plus 17 per hit x1 attack, all x0.50 hits per attack). AC is 18. Also you have reach and better opportunity attacks than the Greatsword guy.

Is the 4-7 DPR plus reach worth 2 AC at 8th level? It's not 100% clear but it's certainly not a bad option either.

Edited for proper math.