Queen of the Demonweb Pits - what's so bad?

[Bullgrit]

...the fact that Q1 is objectively a pretty terrible module, and that one person's 'bizarre' is another person's silly, anticlimatic and ridiculous.

This is the latest example I've seen of someone saying Q1 was a bad adventure module. And no one ever seems to argue with anyone making this kind of statement.

What's so bad about Q1? I've never run it or played in it, but I have read it, more than once. And I thought it seemed like an interesting module. (But then, I also really like T1-4 Temple of Elemental Evil, and many people were highly disappointed with that product.)

What are the problems?

Bullgrit

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I don't know that 'objectively' it's a bad module. I'm not sure anything that's so subjective and variable from player to player could ever be 'objectively' anything.

I didn't care for the sci-fi elements at the end. IIRC (it's been almost 30 years since I played it) we hand-waved a ton of the throw-away encounters as not being worth the hassle, and so we didn't suffer as much attrition as expected. And the various conflicts on other world in the Prime Material could have been modules in their own right; expanding on them would have made the whole thing seem more epic.

That said, I thought it was a worthy conclusion to the series, and I have nothing but fond memories of the G/D/Q campaign. There was definitely a 'we're not in Kansas anymore' vibe that is almost inconceivable post-Planescape, or in modern editions where the dial has been turned up to 11. And given that we'd played those characters every weekend for a year or more at that point, the possibility of a TPK was definitely frightening.

 

[darkseraphim]

I think it's unfairly maligned because the tone, atmosphere, setting and encounters are completely different from the 6 modules that went before it. Also considering that years had passed since the last module in the series (D3), and that Gygax was not the author, people really just didn't know what to think about it when it came out.

When I bought it (1981?) I remember thinking that it was strange, but to me it seemed a natural extension of the rules in the DMG. Other worlds and planes were supposed to be mysterious and completely foreign. The DMG had an Arabian City of Brass on fire, and the two examples of other dimensions (tie-ins to TSR games, of course) were Gamma World and the Wild West, with vague hints at Pellucidar, John Carter's Mars and Metamorphosis Alpha. Why should a non-Euclidean extra-dimensional spiderweb be inappropriate?

The module also has some truly fantastic and compelling encounters. The chamber with the 3 drow thrones, the labyrinth of endless spiders and the dwarven city hopelessly besieged by chaotic evil come to mind. The rules for extra-planar play are scary, internally consistent and groundbreaking. But the running encounter with Lolth is a bit weak and the proto-steampunk spidership is not to everyone's taste.

It's not a big deal, of course. BITD we just ended D3 the way Gygax intended - big epic battle below the Fane in the Vault of the Drow. His Q1 was going to be going from the Fane down to the Sunless Sea and engineering a battle between her and the Elder Elemental God, as I recall, and then probably some kind of escape through portal or ancient ruin or whatever, focused on the talisman shapes. Conservative play groups can ignore Q1 and call it good.

/shrug

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I think the fact that the Demonweb Pits themselves -- after a multi-year build-up -- turned out to be dungeon corridors in the void was kind of frustrating. And then there's the Wild Wild West finale with the giant robot spider, which was completely at odds with the tone of the D series.

That said, the planar rules were cool, the new monsters were awesome and most of the alternate prime materials rocked very hard.

It's definitely a mixed bag. I would have loved to have seen the Gygaxian finale. The Sunless Sea always spoke to me, even before I knew its poetic origins, and thematically, the showdown between Lolth and the Elder Elemental God would have made more sense -- especially since it had been set up, in a way, back in T1.

 

[Wik]

My eyes glazed over reading the module - it was definitely one I never got around to running. It was also one I never really borrowed/stole from, unlike some of the other 1e modules that were never run.

From my readings, the only part that really caught my attention were the alternate primes - the rest of it was definitely blah. And the maps were boring - confusing without there being much reason to be. I hate maze maps, and the demonwebs were basically maze maps.

I am a fan of Lloth having less than a hundred hit points, though. Having JUST run a 4e fight against "her" (I used her stat block, changed her name to a long-running NPC), I'm kind of wistful for the days when demigods DIDN'T have something like 1,200 hit points and dominated you every.round.they're.hit.

 

[David Howery]

I always thought the GDQ modules were a DM's delight, since they were so expandable... you could add a lot of stuff to the underground caverns, and a lot more alternate planes to the Demonweb pits... you could run adventures in the two area for a long time...

 

[Hand of Evil]

I think it is because it is a concept module; what I mean is that it took the players to a place hinted at and built on but that just did not come across in print. expectations vs reality.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

My players and I enjoyed this module. It was weird and alien and fit well with the fare of the day. Maybe it was our taste for the strange. We also loved Expedition to the Barrier Peaks, Dungeonland and Land Beyond the Magic Mirror. We even had a blast playing the much-maligned Castle Greyhawk, in the comical vein it was meant to be played in of course.

 

[wrecan]

How can anyone hate the Demonweb Pits. It has the Abed stamp of Community approval!

I always loved that map.

 

[D'karr]

One of the things that is jarring about the adventure is that the opposition does not seem to be "thematically" consistent with the locale.

So you are in the abyss in this place called the Demonweb Pits but you're fighting trolls, bugbears, etc. It just seemed strange, but I guess due to it's release it is very possible that the more thematically appropriate monsters for it were not yet created.

I like the adventure but there are places where I end up scratching my head and think, WHAT?!!!