Question about the Artificer in Eberron

[reveal]

Metamagic Spell Trigger (Su): At 7th level, an artificer gains the ability to apply a metamagic feat he knows to a spell trigger item (generally a wand). He must have the appropriate item creation feat for the spell trigger item he is using. Using this ability expends additional charges from the item equal to the number of effective spell levels the metamagic feat would add to a spell. For example, an artificer can quicken a spell cast from a wand by spending 5 charges (4 additional charges), empower the spell by spending 3 charges, or trigger it silently by spending 2 charges. The Still Spell feat confers no benefit when applied to a spell trigger item.

This was eratted from 6th to 7th level.

Anyway, with this ability, the Artificer can apply a metamagic feat to a wand simply by using more charges. My question is this:

Can an Artificer quicken a wand, fire it, empower the same wand (since quickening is a free action), and fire it all in the same round?

Both the SRD and the PHB say that using a wand is "usually" a standard action. It gives an example if the casting time of the spell is 1 minute so is using the wand. To me, this means that using a wand is not "always" a standard action and can change.

What do y'all think?

 

[Pyrex]

I don't see why not. Especially since they specifically call out Quicken in the example. The ability says nothing about only being usable once per round.

However, I'm not sure I'd allow the Artificer to (Quicken + Empower)-Fire then (Empower)-Fire; the ability does not specifically allow for multiple feats at once.

 

[reveal]

However, I'm not sure I'd allow the Artificer to (Quicken + Empower)-Fire then (Empower)-Fire; the ability does not specifically allow for multiple feats at once.

I agree, no Quicken+Empower. But in my example, the Artificer Quickens first, fires, then Empowers a second firing. So, technically, he's not using 2 feats on one firing. Ya, using multiple metamagic feats on the wand would quickly get even more crazy.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The problem with the example is that it doesn't really follow the rules for quicken spell and wand activation.

Activating a wand is a standard action, unless the spell stored within has a longer casting time.

Spell Trigger: ... Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Activation: Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast, however, has a longer casting time than 1 action, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.)

The rules on wands provide a hard minimum (standard action) and an undefined maximum (as long as the spell takes to cast, if it's longer than a standard action).

So, if the artificer can quicken a wand at all, then it would work as you describe - he could quicken and "fire" it as a free action, and then empower and fire it as a standard action.

 

[reveal]

The problem with the example is that it doesn't really follow the rules for quicken spell and wand activation.

And that's why I'm confused. It doesn't follow any of the standards of how long it takes to fire a wand. But then, as you said, "if the artificer can quicken a wand" which he can. Thanks!

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

And that's why I'm confused. It doesn't follow any of the standards of how long it takes to fire a wand. But then, as you said, "if the artificer can quicken a wand" which he can. Thanks!

Yeah, if I were to summarize my position on it, it would be:

1. The rules don't allow you to meaningfully quicken wands.
2. The example shows it as a possibility.
3. Therefore, I'd talk to the artificer's player, and let him know that it's allowed "on probation."

Remember that it costs the character a feat and quite a bit of money to pull this off, since an artificer will have very little use for Quicken Spell otherwise. He'll also be burning through wand charges fairly quickly.

Then, after a couple sessions, sit down and evaluate it. If it didn't trip your ridiculousness detectors, let it go. Otherwise, remind the player of Point 1, and let him rechoose his feat.

 

[cmanos]

I dobn't see why not. If spomeone wants to spend 8 charges out of a want to get two shots off in a round, go for it...

Combine this with the Dual Wand Wielder and ...