Question about the Globes of Invulnerability.

[robberbaron]

The text actually refers to a "mirror image created by a caster outside the globe", which implies someone casting it after the GoI is already up.

Actually, I think it implies that some of the caster's images were outside the Globe.

From the SRD: Mirror image creates 1d4 images plus one image per three caster levels (maximum eight images total). These figments separate from you and remain in a cluster, each within 5 feet of at least one other figment or you.

Also, in the Globe text: Note that spell effects are not disrupted unless their effects enter the globe, and even then they are merely suppressed, not dispelled.

My interpretation (I won't feel bad if you disagree. Honest) is that any images outside the radius of the Globe will wink out if they move inside, and will reappear when they move back outside.

I don't think it likely that images will move outside the radius, but without specific rules to the contrary I suppose they could.

 

[Malcer]

I think the text is pretty clear and apart from the hassle of having to bring up low-level defense spells prior to casting Minor/Globe of Invulnerability, it opens nice options to Arcane Casters.

Imagine casting the spell while flying and see those pesky Potion of Flying swallowing Fighters and Clerics with Air Walk being unable to enter your space. Have some fun with that if you're an Arcane Caster, at least up until the time your enemies are fed up with you and get you good for that stunt!

 

[billd91]

I'm away from the PHB, but does it specify that the Mirror Image in question was cast before the GoI?

If the GoI was cast, then someone outside the GoI casts Mirror Image and enters the globe, then since the Mirror Image was not in effect when the GoI was cast, it is affected and the images wink out.

If the Mirror Image was cast first, then the images would not wink out upon entering the GoI.

Unless the example specifies that the MI was cast first, there's no contradiction.

-Hyp.

I don't think that's the way it works. I think the Globe keeps spell effects from entering the area of the Globe regardless of when they were cast. The passage in the text of the spell about not suppressing spells already in effect applies to spells already in effect within the area of the Globe and not ones that might come into the Globe later. By this, I mean that the Globe hedges things out from coming in, but doesn't do anything about spells already in effect with it's boundaries.
I suppose it gets a bit tricky about wizards with spells on them who cast the Globe, leave the Globe, and then come back. Does the Globe remember what was and what was not on the wizard? I think it would be easy enough to say yes without assuming the spells have some kind of mutually shared timer.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I don't think that's the way it works. I think the Globe keeps spell effects from entering the area of the Globe regardless of when they were cast. The passage in the text of the spell about not suppressing spells already in effect applies to spells already in effect within the area of the Globe and not ones that might come into the Globe later.

Not stated anywhere.

A Spiritual Weapon already in effect (and "over there somewhere") when the Globe is cast would be immune to the effect, and could freely enter to attack the wizard, by the wording of the spell.

A Call Lightning cast the round prior to the Globe could be used to zap the wizard each round, as a spell already in effect. A Call Lightning cast the round after the Globe would have its bolts suppressed as they entered the area.

There is contradiction here far greater than some of the other gnats that I've watched you strain over. Why swallow a camel now?

I don't see a contradiction. The example given is exactly what would happen in the case of a Mirror Image cast after the Globe and then brought into its area. Therefore it's obvious to me that that's what the example is demonstrating.

-Hyp.

 

[Treebore]

This is the way I do it. Any spells already going do not get "dispelled" by this spell. Spells can be cast through and out of the area of effect as long as the effect of the spell doesn't occur within the confines of the globe. Any spell, or portion thereof, that enters the globe after it is created gets suppressed until it leaves the globes area of effect. Instantaneous effects are totally negated. Hence the spiritual weapon would be suppressed by the spell upon entering. By the wording of the spell only effects that are in its area of effect prior to casting are not negated. This is because it later says spell effects entering it are suppressed while in it, with no reference to when that spell was cast. Otherwise those sentences totally contradict each other.

So cast in area of effect prior to actually being cast, continues to operate, so you do not get a free automatic dispel magic effect (making the spell mechanically more powerful, game wise). Afterwards, any and all spells, irregardless of when they were cast in reference to the globe, are "suppressed" while in the area of the globes effect, or at least the portion of the spells area of effect that overlaps into the globe. Only if the object/person on which the spell is cast enters the area of the globe will negate the "whole" spell.



that is my interpretation.

 

[billd91]

Not stated anywhere.

A Spiritual Weapon already in effect (and "over there somewhere") when the Globe is cast would be immune to the effect, and could freely enter to attack the wizard, by the wording of the spell.

A Call Lightning cast the round prior to the Globe could be used to zap the wizard each round, as a spell already in effect. A Call Lightning cast the round after the Globe would have its bolts suppressed as they entered the area.

-Hyp.

The wording of the spell is, unfortunately ambiguous, but I think by leaving out any indication of whether the spell in the mirror image example is cast earlier or not that makes my interpretation more likely. That spiritual hammer, coming into the area of the Globe, should be suppressed just like the mirror image in the PHB example.
The way I see it, 0-3rd level spells cannot have an effect inside that barrier unless they were already inside when the barrier went up.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The way I see it, 0-3rd level spells cannot have an effect inside that barrier unless they were already inside when the barrier went up.

That's not what the spell says. Whether they were inside or not before the globe went up is irrelevant - whether they were cast before the globe went up is the determining factor.

"Spells of 4th level and higher are not affected by the globe, nor are spells already in effect when the globe is cast."

-Hyp.

 

[allenw]

That's not what the spell says. Whether they were inside or not before the globe went up is irrelevant - whether they were cast before the globe went up is the determining factor.

"Spells of 4th level and higher are not affected by the globe, nor are spells already in effect when the globe is cast."

-Hyp.

Yes, and I (and apparently billd91) read that as "already in effect in the spell's area of effect," which seems at least as likely as your interpretation. Since our reading would fit with the Mirror Image example, and solve all the "when was it cast?" questions, I think Occam's Razor cuts in our favor.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Yes, and I (and apparently billd91) read that as "already in effect in the spell's area of effect," which seems at least as likely as your interpretation.

It seems at least as likely that "spells already in effect" means "spells already in effect in the spell's area of effect", rather than "spells already in effect"?

-Hyp.

 

[Malcer]

It seems at least as likely that "spells already in effect" means "spells already in effect in the spell's area of effect", rather than "spells already in effect"?

-Hyp.

Well, I don't want to argue semantics, but I think that Hypersmurf's interpretation is not in agreement with what the spell should be able to do. Minor Globe and Globe of Invulnerability are stationary effects, which means that they their utility is already somewhat limited.

The globes are far from a foolproof protection against hostile spell effects, whether they are cast on creatures or instantaneous effects, but really don't think it is too much to ask that you can consider yourself protected against any 0-3 level spell (or 0-4 level) effect if any of the globe spells are up, independent of when those effects came into being.

Sure, Hypersmurf's point is about a literal interpretation of what is really being said in the spell description, but this is IMHO what the description should mean for anyone using the spells.