D&D 5E Question on Alert

[Lanliss]

Would you rule that certain circumstances bypass the Alert feat? specifically, a person in the equivalent of a Silence Spell walking up behind the person with Alert?

Or, do you think this is overstepping a bit, since one of the main benefits of the feat is "Never get surprised"?

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Depending on the circumstances, I would probably say that it still applies. Just because someone is able to sneak up behind you, and you didn't see or hear them coming, that doesn't mean you are surprised by them. You probably expected them to show up.

If you have the Alert feat, then you're probably always expecting enemies to show up. Constant vigilance!

 

[pdzoch]

I would think that oversteps it. Many things contribute to alertness -- five senses are involved. Just because the target was silent, and hidden, there are still clues that tip off the alert person. It may not remove any disadvantages he will have against the target, but he will not be surprise and will therefore get to act normally during his turn.

This "spider sense" really only offers a benefit in a surprise round, so the feat is fairly limited. No need to try to find a way to defeat it.

 

[jaelis]

I think there is a perfectly straightforward way to resolve this kind of thing, which is that if an attacker manages to set things up where there's no plausible way the Alert character can be aware of the attack, then the attacker automatically wins initiative. But the Alert character is not surprised so gets to take his first turn as usual.

IMO the dice are only there to resolve uncertainty, so if you're in a situation where the outcome should be certain, you shouldn't use dice.

However, many people disagree with me. That is because we live in an imperfect world

 

[Shiroiken]

Would you rule that certain circumstances bypass the Alert feat? specifically, a person in the equivalent of a Silence Spell walking up behind the person with Alert?

Or, do you think this is overstepping a bit, since one of the main benefits of the feat is "Never get surprised"?

Using your specific example, the Alert Character would immediately notice the loss of sound when the attacker moved into range. There is always ambient noise about, even if we tune it out, and a sudden silence would be startling.

I think the best way to look at Alert is to include acts of coincidence. In your example, assuming Boots of Elvenkind (which don't provide noise), the Alert character simply happens to glance in that direction at the right time. The feat has it's purpose, which is to prevent surprise, and going out of your way to nerf it seems unreasonable.

Now, that's not to say that it stops everything. For example, if you want to initiate a combat when a warlock summons demons, you don't have to call for initiative until AFTER the demons appear. The character isn't surprised, but it doesn't give them a chance to jump in and stop it either. Some players refer to this as a "cut scene," based on CRPGs, because the rules of the game don't apply during them. I don't suggest using it often, but it's something to consider.

 

[Lanliss]

Using your specific example, the Alert Character would immediately notice the loss of sound when the attacker moved into range. There is always ambient noise about, even if we tune it out, and a sudden silence would be startling.

I think the best way to look at Alert is to include acts of coincidence. In your example, assuming Boots of Elvenkind (which don't provide noise), the Alert character simply happens to glance in that direction at the right time. The feat has it's purpose, which is to prevent surprise, and going out of your way to nerf it seems unreasonable.

Now, that's not to say that it stops everything. For example, if you want to initiate a combat when a warlock summons demons, you don't have to call for initiative until AFTER the demons appear. The character isn't surprised, but it doesn't give them a chance to jump in and stop it either. Some players refer to this as a "cut scene," based on CRPGs, because the rules of the game don't apply during them. I don't suggest using it often, but it's something to consider.

Well, equivalent to silence. It is actually a girl that was cursed to be unable to make sound, so it wouldn't block all the sound in the area, like a normal Silence Spell would. It might not come up but, if my players make an enemy out of the girl's family, she is capable of killing.

 

[Lucas Blackstone]

I think the feat is fine and doesn't need special DM workarounds.

 

[Lanliss]

I think the feat is fine and doesn't need special DM workarounds.

I am not talking about workarounds. I just happened to wind up with a Slient character, and was curious on the opinions of others as to how she would interact with Alert.

 

[jaelis]

I think there is a perfectly straightforward way to resolve this kind of thing, which is that if an attacker manages to set things up where there's no plausible way the Alert character can be aware of the attack, then the attacker automatically wins initiative. But the Alert character is not surprised so gets to take his first turn as usual.

IMO the dice are only there to resolve uncertainty, so if you're in a situation where the outcome should be certain, you shouldn't use dice.

However, many people disagree with me. That is because we live in an imperfect world

I should append, that in the case the OP describes, I would probably just say that the Alert character looks around often and sees the silent attacker coming. So I'd roll initiative as usual. If the attacker were also invisible and moving on a floor that left no tracks, then I'd probably assign initiative by fiat.

 

[Lucas Blackstone]

I am not talking about workarounds. I just happened to wind up with a Slient character, and was curious on the opinions of others as to how she would interact with Alert.

Sorry, it wasn't directed strictly at you but for everyone who chooses to share opinions in the thread. Silent is just the beginning of the eventual argument someone may provide. For silent, invisible, odorless attackers from a distance I still believe the feat should function as listed. No surprise if conscious along with the other listed benefits.