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Question on flat footed?


First Post
A monk breaks down a door. There are 3 hobgoblins inside. No surprise action is determined. Initiative is rolled and the monk has higher initiative and acts first.

Do the Hobgoblins get there dex bonus or are they considered flat footed?

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First Post
So what happens if the Monk takes 3 rounds to knock down the down the door and the Hobgoblins in the room are obviously ready for them? Are they still flat footed?

James McMurray

First Post
In that case, they would not be flatfooted, as they would have taken actions. Even if that action was just to delay, I doubt they were completely ignorant of the fact the monk was coming. :)


Registered User
Western Movie: Two guys play who draws first on a street.

Per 3rd ed rules, they roll initiative and the loser is flatfooted.

Negative Zero

First Post
Darklone, i think your analogy is slightly flawed here. an old western draw, as i understand it, is more of a simultaneous action than a turn based one, as the DnD combat system is. more appropriate rules for that might be the alternate jousting rules in that Dragon issue with the knights (don't remember the #). but, that's not main issue here ...

as Meepo said, you are always flatfooted till you first action in the round, barring uncanny dodge, regardless of how "unrealistic" it may seem. of course you might rule that initiative started when the monk bashed open the door (unless he did it on one try).



First Post
Darklone - terrible analogy.

Both gunfighters WERE aware of each other for quite some time.

They delayed their actions till one reacted.
That is many rounds into combat.
Then one reacted, simultaneous firing (just about) and one either hits or both hit or both miss.


First Post
Another take on the situation...

Monk approaches locked door, aware that opponents lurk beyond. The monk initiates combat, choosing to attack the door. Initiative starts, but it doesn't have to be rolled at this point, since it won't matter before the door is open.

Surprise round: Monk makes first attempt to break door. Hobgoblins startled by loud noise.

Round 1: Monk makes second attempt to break door. Hobgoblins delay their initiative or prepare actions. (Delay would be more flexible, but prepared action might allow them to act sooner. Take your pick.)

Round 2: Monk smashes through door on his 3rd attempt. Maybe he moves. Hobgoblins' prepared actions go off. Now you might need some initiative rolls (even though "combat" has already been going on for a few rounds). Depends on what the waiting hobgoblins did.

Round 3: Combatants act in initiative order (as modified by delayed actions, prepared actions, etc.)

How's that sound?