D&D 5E Question: Spirit Guardians/Distant Spell metamagic interaction?

[Greenstone.Walker]

In fact, if they reprinted the PHB and changed the range entry of spirit guardians to 'range: 15 feet', nothing would change about how the spell works!

Yes, it would - the spell would now allow the use of Distant Spell metamagic!

Personally, my argument for disallowing Distant Spell for areas of effect is the low point cost for exponential increase in targets.

On a grid, a 15ft radius casting affects up to 36 medium creatures. A 30ft radius casting affects 120 creatures.

That is way too much of an increase for 1 sorcery point.

 

[Arial Black]

Yes, it would - the spell would now allow the use of Distant Spell metamagic!

That's a metagame reason; because the players can read the statblock of the spell.

But the creatures in the game world cannot be aware of game mechanics, and neither spells nor metamagics can make decisions about how they want to work, they just work the way they work.

Whichever way these spells are written in the metagame-'Self (x-foot radius)' or 'Range: x feet'-in the game world these spells affect creatures that are within a certain distance from the caster. In game, why should a meta-magic apply to some of these spells and not to others, when they all work identically in that game world?

If one player at the table is using the statblock of thunderclap from PotA and another is using the statblock of the same spell from XGtE, why would Distant Spell affect one but not the other when both spells affect the in-game reality in exactly the same way no matter which way the range entry is written?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The DM decides which stat block to use. Generally, that should be the latest version avialable at the table.

 

[Mistwell]

On a grid, a 15ft radius casting affects up to 36 medium creatures. A 30ft radius casting affects 120 creatures.

That is way too much of an increase for 1 sorcery point.

I know it's a fantasy game, but you don't have to apply just fantastical examples to it just because it's fantasy themed! Come on, you know quite well the number of targets is almost never like that. It's going to increase the targets by usually a couple in actual play situations most of the time.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

Come on, you know quite well the number of targets is almost never like that. It's going to increase the targets by usually a couple in actual play situations most of the time.

No, I don't know that.
I ran a combat last week where some of the combatants were out of torchlight and darkvision range and that was exceptional. For almost all of the game I GM, combats have been at 60ft or less. In the Out of the Abyss game I play in, the same happens, though that is probably because light issues are much more important (we have humans in the party).

The increase in range of spirit guardians would extend it from "the melee foes next to the cleric" to simply "every foe." Too much for one sorcery point.

I take the view that Jeremy Crawford does - "Distant Spell can change the range of a spell, not the size of an area of effect created by the spell."

 

[Mistwell]

No, I don't know that.
I ran a combat last week where some of the combatants were out of torchlight and darkvision range and that was exceptional. For almost all of the game I GM, combats have been at 60ft or less. In the Out of the Abyss game I play in, the same happens, though that is probably because light issues are much more important (we have humans in the party).

The increase in range of spirit guardians would extend it from "the melee foes next to the cleric" to simply "every foe." Too much for one sorcery point.

I take the view that Jeremy Crawford does - "Distant Spell can change the range of a spell, not the size of an area of effect created by the spell."

You say you don't know that...and then none of the rest of your response supports any of that.

You know darn well in typical situations it's not going to impact 120 creatures. Can't we discuss a typical example without you pushing that fairly exaggerated extreme theoretical number? You gave an example from last week. Would the spell have his 120 creatures in your actual example?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It would be resonable to assume that Distant Spell would enable an area spell to hit four times as many targets (as a 2D grid is usually used), assuming the number of targets is not capped by the spell.

However, I don't think their are any spells with radial ranges greater than 5' that can affect an uncapped number of targets.

Hypothetically, a spell with a range of "touch" could affect all targets in a 30' radius if there where no cap on the number of targets. But as no such spells exist it is pointless to worry about it.

As for Spirit Guardians, that quite clearly has a range of Self (and twice zero is zero). The issue is some people don't understand the notation used in the print books - it's not sufficiently clear. I direct those people to D&D Beyond - you don't need to own anything to see the spell Range/Area listed.