Questionable morals - PC's killing children

[Aaron L]

Sentience is an arbitrary condition? And their are people who would disagree that it is Evil to kill sentient beings who are physically immature, are cowering, are offering no resistance, and pose no threat to you? I very much hope I never meet any of those peple. I am afraid I would be unfriendly with them.

 

[Rhialto]

How can you prove that sentience makes a life more precious than non-sentience? Qualify your response. You're making exactly the same kind of judgement call that elf barbarian did--you're just wrapping it up in a slightly more gentile manner...

 

[Geron Raveneye]

One of my players lately has thrown me into a quandry. He is playing a chaotic neutral elven fighter and we are trekking through (a converted) Keep on the Borderlands. They came across a group of Hobgoblins (including children) and began to cut a swathe through the adults. Then said elf decided that he would murder the kids (who were whimpering and cowering in a corner) because "one day they will grow up to cause trouble". What do I do? Is it evil? I am considering sending a long a celestial to keep watch on this character (my campaign involves the planes a bit). What would you do?

Quoting the PHB here:" A chaotic neutral character follows his whims."

Apart from being the reason why I don´t like CN characters in my games (too often used as apology to "do what I like" ), it justifies the action of that elf. Just through a harsh fight with a small tribe of Hobgoblins, he decides to cut down their offspring, too, to cut the source of trouble like that for others.
If that action was in it´s entirety evil is up to you, though. If you consider the killing of frightened, helpless children regardless of race and their parents´alignments as evil, the logical consequence would be to further watch this character and eventually adjust the character´s alignment.

And yes, I read through the whole thread...I just chose to only address the original post

 

[Aaron L]

How can you prove that sentience makes a life more precious than non-sentience? Qualify your response. You're making exactly the same kind of judgement call that elf barbarian did--you're just wrapping it up in a slightly more gentile manner...

Because living creates death. If what you are saying is true we are all damned because we kill microbes by process of our living, and must kill some kind of living creature (be it animal or plant) in order ot eat. Some dividing line must made, and I have made it at the line of sentience, and I do believe I am not alone.

 

[Rhialto]

Having the majority by you doesn't make you right, Aaron... you still haven't shown how sentience deserves protection more than non-sentient life. Indeed, I could say from your argument, that since killing is inevitable, it is useless to avoid it, and that is in fact perfectly right for anybody, to kill anyone whenever they want...

 

[Tiefling]

I still think they should have enslaved them. The females could have pretty good lives, too, if there are enough pedophiliacs in your world who wouldn't mind that she's a hobgoblin and could afford concubines.

 

[Aaron L]

In Dungeons & Dragons, sentient creatures have a soul. So they are more important then nonsentient creatures. That does not mean nonsentient creatures are unimportant and deserve to be killed , it means that the death of a flower is not as significant as the death of a human.

 

[Rhialto]

But it has never been stated that animals in D&D do NOT have souls...

And still, you haven't answered my question--you've merely added on another condition. How does having a soul make one lifeform more worthwhile than another?

 

[Game Control]

If I were the PC (and I usually play CN), I wouldn't have killed the children.

They might die on their own. If they survive, they might not turn into killers. If they do tun into killers, they'll take their place amongst another Hobgoblin tribe. If they do take their place in a raider tribe, will it really affect the outcome of the raids? I don't know.

But I do know that if my PC was to kill children, the day of his death he would have to present himself to his patron deity as a children slayer. Unless your patron deity is Evil, it can't be a good thing.

 

[med stud]

But it has never been stated that animals in D&D do NOT have souls...

And still, you haven't answered my question--you've merely added on another condition. How does having a soul make one lifeform more worthwhile than another?

There are two answers for this as I know of real life. One is the morally absolutistic view that humans are created by God (or whatever) and therefore are Holy. Killing is forbidden in holy writing X, therefore we shouldnt kill.

The other answer is that with increased sentience comes increased levels of potential suffering. A plant is unable to suffer; you can damage it, but you cant (probably) make it suffer. A low animal, like a worm, you can make suffer physically but probably dont mentally (since the mental capacity of a worm is pretty limited). If we go up on the scale we find mammals, who are able to feel emotions like joy and fear. Those animals can suffer physically and mentally. If we go up the ladder again, we find sentient beings, who can be hurt terribly mentally, with the use of imagination and so on.
What does this explanation tell? Nothing without premises. But if we put in a premise, like hurting is bad, we come to the conclusion that is worse hurting a sentient being than a plant. This is the morally relativistic point of view, which often is about maximising happiness or minimizing suffering.

These explanations can be used well in D&D to judge an action. Let's say that the morally absolutic view says that killing hobgoblins is not wrong, it is a Neutral action. If it says that killing all children is wrong, then it is Evil. Pretty easy.

By using the relative moral, we have to compare the consequences of letting the children live; what will happen to the total level of "happiness" in the world? On the minus side we have the loss of Happiness from the children, and what's on the plus side is another matter, depending on how you view hobgoblins in your game.

Hope Im not incohorent, Im pretty tired as Im writing this