Questions about Double-swords

[Bluewyrm]

Well, the Adventurer's Vault has officially come out, and there was much rejoicing. Now, onto the inevitable rules debates:

Double-swords...
1. They count as both Heavy Blade and Light Blade. Would a char be able to use the benefit of Light Blade feats on both ends? The weapon appears and is described as symmetrical, so I would think so, but I wasn't sure. There is some precedence that this would be the case, as a Glaive definitely counts as both a Polearm and a Heavy Blade...
2. You could obviously carry (but not wield) a Double-Sword in one hand and something else in the other hand (like a javelin). If you threw your Javelin, would you then be able to immediately wield your Double-Sword afterwards? Or would you have to spend a Minor Action, etc. in order to "grab the blade" with your now free-hand?

 

[Larrin]

1. Unless the description says otherwise, you get to use it as both, thus you could use heavy blade and light blade feats on the same attack. Things like weapon focus wouldn't stack (its a named bonus, isn't it?) but you could use heavy blade oppurtunity and light blade prescion in the same Opurtunity attack against a large creature.

2. i don't think the rules really address this by name (to my knowledge), but there is nothing to imply switching from one to two hands costs more than a free action

 

[deleteme123456]

Weapon Focus is a feat bonus, so Larrin's right that it doesn't stack.

 

[Aservan]

And RAW a rogue can use a double sword for all the rogue-y goodness.

 

[keterys]

2. i don't think the rules really address this by name (to my knowledge), but there is nothing to imply switching from one to two hands costs more than a free action

There's also nothing to imply that it costs a free action, so we're clear

Drawing/Sheathing a weapon takes a minor action.
Equip/Stow a shield takes a standard action.
Dropping an item takes a free action.

Those are the relevant rules. Go nuts.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Double-swords...
1. They count as both Heavy Blade and Light Blade. Would a char be able to use the benefit of Light Blade feats on both ends?

To be absolutely certain, I'd want to look at the wording of any description of how the weapon is used, but, generally if a weapon gives two or more types (like a glaive being both a pole-arm and heavy blade) it's both types, all the time. If it has 3e-like language along the lines of it counting as weilding and off-hand light blade & a heavy blade when TWFing, that'd be different.

2. You could obviously carry (but not wield) a Double-Sword in one hand and something else in the other hand (like a javelin). If you threw your Javelin, would you then be able to immediately wield your Double-Sword afterwards? Or would you have to spend a Minor Action, etc. in order to "grab the blade" with your now free-hand?

The rules don't give an action for changing grips or swapping hands. Maybe it's because it's not an action at all. A two-handed weapon (or a versatile weapon gaining the +1 damage) has a requirement: that you use both hands to wield it. If you have two hands available, you meet that requirement. OTOH, holding an item only requires one hand. If you're not wielding a two-handed weapon, but only holding it, you have a hand free.

So, if you're holding a double-sword and a javelin, you have one hand occupied in holding each weapon - you couldn't draw a thrid, for instance. You can't use the double-sword at all, but you could make an attack with the javelin, or drop either weapon. If you make an attack with the javelin by throwing it, you are no longer holding a javelin, so you have both hands free to weild the doublesword - thus you could use it to make an OA, or spend an action point to attack with it.

 

[bjorn2bwild]

To be absolutely certain, I'd want to look at the wording of any description of how the weapon is used, but, generally if a weapon gives two or more types (like a glaive being both a pole-arm and heavy blade) it's both types, all the time. If it has 3e-like language along the lines of it counting as weilding and off-hand light blade & a heavy blade when TWFing, that'd be different.

Right but what happens when you compare the double sword to the urgrosh, which is also a double weapon with two different weapon type attributes, but very obviously different "weapon heads"?

The September releases seem to have a slew of ambiguity and items/powers that were poorly thought out, if at all.

Double weapon rules, in particular, have a significant lack of foresight.

 

[keterys]

I definitely dislike the concept that the double sword is the pre-eminent rogue weapon. That's just not right at all.

 

[Ginnel]

I definitely dislike the concept that the double sword is the pre-eminent rogue weapon. That's just not right at all.

no +1 to hit from the double sword as you get with daggers, its just like a rapier except your rogue must always have two hands free to use it and it gets +1 AC? hmm not sure if always needing two hands is a big enough disadvantage compared to the 1AC *ponder ponder* and its bulky hmmm

 

[Ginnel]

Right but what happens when you compare the double sword to the urgrosh, which is also a double weapon with two different weapon type attributes, but very obviously different "weapon heads"?

The September releases seem to have a slew of ambiguity and items/powers that were poorly thought out, if at all.

Double weapon rules, in particular, have a significant lack of foresight.

I'm sure I've read in these forums that double weapons have a main end and a secondary end, and its only the main end that benefits from any special properties on the weapon but both ends get the +'s