Questions about the Shifter PrC
Re: Shifter
CRGreathouse and drowdude are correct.
The limitations on Wild Shape -- whether or not they can become dire or legendary -- do not apply to the GREATER Wild Shape of the Shifter. The Shifter can become ANYTHING that is within their category (subject to DM approval and seeing such a creature). The size and HD limitations of the Shifter are the only restrictions.
Keep in mind, too, that this is pretty much the ONLY benefit of this class.
As an aside, I would worry less about dire animals and legendary animals than I would about things like Ropers, Remorhaz, the larger dragon categories, and constructs. Ropers are pretty darn evil and all their abilities are EX. Same for the Remorhaz -- hit with the bite, win a grapple, and kiss up to two large creatures goodbye. (Only caveat -- must STAY a Remorhaz until they're digested.
) Dragons, even without their breath weapons or spells, are EVIL. And except for the gas cloud, everything on an iron golem is EX, including that DR of 50/+3 and the immunity to magic.
Or, for tormenting armor users, the shifter can go Rust monster...
CRGreathouse and drowdude are correct.
The limitations on Wild Shape -- whether or not they can become dire or legendary -- do not apply to the GREATER Wild Shape of the Shifter. The Shifter can become ANYTHING that is within their category (subject to DM approval and seeing such a creature). The size and HD limitations of the Shifter are the only restrictions.
Keep in mind, too, that this is pretty much the ONLY benefit of this class.
As an aside, I would worry less about dire animals and legendary animals than I would about things like Ropers, Remorhaz, the larger dragon categories, and constructs. Ropers are pretty darn evil and all their abilities are EX. Same for the Remorhaz -- hit with the bite, win a grapple, and kiss up to two large creatures goodbye. (Only caveat -- must STAY a Remorhaz until they're digested.
) Dragons, even without their breath weapons or spells, are EVIL. And except for the gas cloud, everything on an iron golem is EX, including that DR of 50/+3 and the immunity to magic.Or, for tormenting armor users, the shifter can go Rust monster...
To be more specific, the restriction on assuming dire animal form is part of the Druid class description of their wild shape ability. The description of wild shape in general (in MotW) does not mention this restriction. Because of this, it is clear to me that Shifters can assume Dire animal form as soon as they get the animal type.
As others have pointed out, the HD restriction that Shifters have keeps this balanced; Druids don't have that restriction and so need their own rule to prevent abuse.
As others have pointed out, the HD restriction that Shifters have keeps this balanced; Druids don't have that restriction and so need their own rule to prevent abuse.
ruleslawyer
Registered User
OK, a bit off-topic, but has anyone else thought of house-ruling the golem's Magic Immunity ability into a supernatural ability? It not only would make sense (magic immunity seems to depend on the existence of magic to harm the golem), but would remove the scary possibility of the wizard or shifter shapechanging into an iron golem and being able to level opponents without any fear of magical attack in return.
Chun-tzu
First Post
nharwell said:
I would go with something slightly more restrictive than "having seen." I'd say the Shifter must be intently observing/studying the creature, for a number of rounds to be determined by the DM (as some creatures will require more study than others). Ideally, there must be some kind of interaction. I like EOL's DC ratings, but I'd go with a straight Wis check instead of introducing a new Knowledge category, because this is a more intuitive process than academic one.
Another (simpler) possible way to go would be to require physical contact, for at least one round. Then the druid chants, "My mind, to your mind..."
You know, the Shifter has got to be the only member of the party who gets excited about meeting strange and unfamiliar monsters! The more dangerous the better!
EOL
First Post
Re: Re: Shifter
I agree the dire and the legendary don't seem like much to worry about, and even the dragon's have so many HD you'd only be able to change into really young ones, but there are some like the rope or a golem that seem pretty scary. You're right about the immunity to magic being extraordinary, but the DR is supernatural (MM pg. 9) but beyond that golems are human shaped which means that because of the Shifter's ability to shift equipment as well you'd have a Iron Golem Outfitted as an 18th level character, that seems like it might be broken.wolff96 said:As an aside, I would worry less about dire animals and legendary animals than I would about things like Ropers, Remorhaz, the larger dragon categories, and constructs. Ropers are pretty darn evil and all their abilities are EX. Same for the Remorhaz -- hit with the bite, win a grapple, and kiss up to two large creatures goodbye. (Only caveat -- must STAY a Remorhaz until they're digested.
EOL
First Post
With the boards back up I can respond....
Read about or talked to someone familiar with- 25
That's one of the things I hope to have a lot of fun with as this character. Really being excited about new and different creatures could be a lot of fun. The role-playing aspect is also one of the reasons why I added this line to the DC table:Chun-tzu said:
Read about or talked to someone familiar with- 25
Hmmm
My mistake on the damage reduction -- I forgot that one was a supernatural ability.
After a bit of research, though, I found something WORSE than an Iron Golem. It's a Clay Golem.
Only 11HD -- so you can become one as soon as you can turn into a construct. Magic immunity just like an Iron Golem.
Best of all, though... IMMUNE to slashing and piercing weapons, no matter how they're enchanted. And it's extraordinary.
Granted, they can't be healed like a normal creature, but the shifter just turns into some other form and gets healed normally. Yowch, now THAT is a powerful form.
My mistake on the damage reduction -- I forgot that one was a supernatural ability.
After a bit of research, though, I found something WORSE than an Iron Golem. It's a Clay Golem.
Only 11HD -- so you can become one as soon as you can turn into a construct. Magic immunity just like an Iron Golem.
Best of all, though... IMMUNE to slashing and piercing weapons, no matter how they're enchanted. And it's extraordinary.
Granted, they can't be healed like a normal creature, but the shifter just turns into some other form and gets healed normally. Yowch, now THAT is a powerful form.
Vecna
First Post
Re: Hmmm
Yes, but probably you'll get this as well (it actually refers to a controlled golem)
Berserk (Ex): When a clay golem enters combat, there is a cumulative 1% chance each round that its elemental spirit breaks free and goes berserk. The uncontrolled golem goes on a rampage, attacking the nearest living creature or smashing some object smaller than itself if no creature is within reach, then moving on to spread more destruction. Once the golem goes berserk, no known method can reestablish control.
wolff96 said:
Yes, but probably you'll get this as well (it actually refers to a controlled golem)
Berserk (Ex): When a clay golem enters combat, there is a cumulative 1% chance each round that its elemental spirit breaks free and goes berserk. The uncontrolled golem goes on a rampage, attacking the nearest living creature or smashing some object smaller than itself if no creature is within reach, then moving on to spread more destruction. Once the golem goes berserk, no known method can reestablish control.
