Quick monster help needed!

[zyzzyr]

Hi all,

I am running a session tonight, and it includes a roper from the MM. Now, I'm comfortable with the strands and attach special attacks, but I'm unsure of the "weakness".

Is "weakness" a standard action? Or is it automatic when the strand attaches?

For example:

(1)
Round 1: Roper shoots out strand, and it attaches onto the player. The player does a strength check (DC 19) and fails. The player also fails his fortitude check, and then takes 2d8 points of strength damage.
Round 2: The strand brings him 10 feet closer, and he has to make another fortitude check. He fails, and takes another 2d8 pts of str damage.
Round 3: The strand brings him 10 feet closer. Another check, another fail, another 2d8 pts of damage.
Total: 3 rounds, 20 feet, 6d8 str damage.

or

(2)
Round 1: The roper shoots out a strand and it attaches. PC fails a strength check.
Round 2: The player tries a strength check and fails. The player fails a fortitude check, and takes strength damage.
Round 3: The player fails a strength check. He is drawn 10 feet closer.
Total: 3 rounds, 10 feet, 2d8 str damage.

or

(3)
Round 1: The roper shoots out a strand and it attaches.
Round 2: The PC does his first strength check and fails. It brings him 10 feet closer. He also has to due a fortitude check. He fails that.
Round 3: The player does a 2nd str check, fails, the 2nd fort check, fails, and another 10 feet.
Total: 3 rounds, 20 feet, 4d8 str damage.

Hmm, I guess it boils down to two questions:

Is "weakness" a standard action on the part of the roper?
Does "weakness" occur on the initial round of attach, or subsequent rounds only?

Thanks for any help!

and Sorry for short notice

zyzzyr

 

[Gromm]

Weakness is NOT a standard action of the roper, its the result of being "caught by a strand". So I think #2 on your list.
Basically if they PC is attached they take the Str damage each turn they haven't broken free.

 

[Grazzt]

Gromm is correct. The weakness effect is not an action, but a result of being caught by the roper's strands.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Hmm, I guess it boils down to two questions:

Is "weakness" a standard action on the part of the roper?
Does "weakness" occur on the initial round of attach, or subsequent rounds only?

Weakness is not a standard action for the roper.

Weakness occurs on the initial round of attach only, not 2d8 temporary strength per round. The description would have said that if it meant that.

(1)
Round 1: Roper shoots out strand, and it attaches onto the player. The player does a strength check (DC 19) and fails. The player also fails his fortitude check, and then takes 2d8 points of strength damage.
Round 2: The strand brings him 10 feet closer, and he has to make another fortitude check. He fails, and takes another 2d8 pts of str damage.
Round 3: The strand brings him 10 feet closer. Another check, another fail, another 2d8 pts of damage.
Total: 3 rounds, 20 feet, 6d8 str damage.

This is close, except for all the extra fort saves and weakness damage. This only happens once when the roper hits with a strand. Multiple strands, of course, can cause multiple weaknesses. Also, the player must wait until his turn to make a strength check, not during the roper's turn. IOW, the player cannot thwart the roper's hit by making the strength check. The way you wrote round one looks like the player can thwart the roper's strand with a strength check.

Here is my example (the roper has won initiative).

Round 1
Roper: Shoots strand and attaches to the PC. PC fails Fort save and takes 2d8 temporary strength damage.
PC: Makes a strength or escape artist check, fails.
Round 2
Roper: Pulls PC 10 feet closer.
PC: Makes a strength or escape artist check, fails.
Round 3
Roper: Pulls PC 10 feet closer.
PC: Tries to cut strand. Attacks it with his +2 flaming longsword vs. AC 20. Hits doing 11 points of damage, thereby severing the strand. Moves away, preferably behind cover.

 

[zyzzyr]

Thanks!

Hi all,

Thanks for the input. I ran it tonight, and used only one str drain per atatch (since I felt each round was too much). I unfortunately was not as perfectly stringent as I should have been though. I forgot about spell resistance!

However, it actually went better without SR, for the purposes of this game. The players all thought they were completely screwed, doing virtually no damage to it with any attempts. Once the druid summoned up a flaming sphere, it took double damage, and the players all grabbed everything they could. The bard even used a few fiery illusions with great effect.

I'll reduce the CR by 2 to 4, since the CR is what makes the monster, really.

I've also impressed on them the fact that sometimes things are too dangerous, and should be avoided.

It went relatively well.

Thanks again,

Zyzzyr

 

[Gromm]

Thanks Zoom, I spaced on the drain per round thing.

Yes it should only be one time, as per the creature description.

I think one of the examples from the original post threw me off.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Re: Thanks!

Thanks for the input. I ran it tonight, and used only one str drain per atatch (since I felt each round was too much). I unfortunately was not as perfectly stringent as I should have been though. I forgot about spell resistance!

I'll reduce the CR by 2 to 4, since the CR is what makes the monster, really.

You forgot SR! Oh my.

If this is the adventure I think it is, your players would have never made the caster level check against SR 28. So much for that flaming sphere.

I ran a roper against my 5th level party awhile back and they got their collective arses handed to them. But they did win in the end. The ranger had one drow poisoned arrow left. He managed to hit the roper with it, despite his 2 Str. The roper promptly failed its saving throw and became paralyzed. The monk CDG'd it through the eye with his heavy crossbow.

BTW, a roper is CR 10 as written, not 6. I would drop it by at least 2 or 3, and reevaluate its treasure, if any.

 

[Crothian]

So, what would the CR be if the DM accidentilly forgot the save for the strength damage?

That's what happened last night, until I casually asked about it. So, we redid the whole encounter. It was rather funny.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

That is funny.

I would bump the CR up 1 if I forgot the save. But since you did the combat over again, you get nothing and like it.

I have noticed many threads in which the DM admits he overlooked something. Is this endemic to 3e monsters because they have alot of entries and abilities to keep straight? Or is it something else entirely?

 

[zyzzyr]

Saves

That reminds me: whoops. I think I forgot the saves as well. Hmm, and I thought I had read out the monster completely.

I don't know why in particular I seem to forget these things. I definitely recall reading the fort save prior to running the encounter. I wonder if maybe it's because there's a lot more to remember now in 3e? Saves, being different, aren't type specific - if in 2e, I say "take 10 damage from poison", you can say "wait, i should get a save vs. poison", whereas in 3e you might get a fort save instead - and thus the word "poison" doesn't trigger a reminder.

Anyhow, I guess I'll take off one less than I was going to

Dr. Zoom - yes, it is FoF. Although these players are a healthy level 5, and well equipped. And yes, the SR would have guaranteed that no spells would have ever worked.

In the end, I suppose it doesn't matter - everyone thought that encounter was a lot of fun. And I'll know for next time!

Now, I did have an offshoot question from this:

I had two players who were subject to a str drain. One ended up with Str 1, and the other Str 3. The Str 1 I ruled could not stand up under the weight of her leather armor + pack, but could wiggle around on the ground (which let her cast spells from prone). The Str 3 char was in full plate, and I ruled that he could just barely stand up, but could not walk.

That sound reasonable?