Quitting a group & starting anew..ground rules?

[StupidSmurf]

Hmmm...interesting stuff.

I tend to think that having a set of rules like this will attract a certain type of player, and that's the whole point. Even though I philosophically disagree with this whole list of rules approach, I think I can understand where Emirikol's coming from. It's the "I've had to put up with some awful crap in the past, and I don't want it repeated. Furthermore, I want hardcore, devoted, damn-the-torpedoes, balls-to-the-wall gamer types" school of thought, and that's legit.

If you swing that way....And all power to you if it works!

I guess my rules boil down to just these two simple ones.
The Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you
The Gulden Rule: Don't act like an a-hole in my home or I'll whip a glass jar of spicy brown mustard at your head and kick you out the door.

 

[DonTadow]

Poker has rules, but do you sit down and hand your friends a list of "behavior" rules when you play some texas hold-em? This is a non sequitur.

And what is the public reaction to those? As I mentioned above, a theatre chain near me starting handing out a rules card for every show. I, as well as a large number of work associates, friends, and acquaintances now refuse to see movies there on the same principle.


I find it hard to believe that you cannot find suitable players without a lock-step list of rules.

Errr, there already are rules you have to read before posting. They are even in a list format.

And just like their rules, if this was your board I'd abide by them too.

The Rules - Please Read!
[Note -- see the FAQ for more info on rules at EN World].

Hi all! It's been a while since we've clearly and directly gone over the rules with everyone, and since we're getting new members all the time it seems like it might be time for a brief refresher.

Eric started the forums in early 2000, and at that time he established three rules: Keep it civil, keep it clean, and keep it on topic. Those rules are essentially the same rules I, the admins and the mods use today in the course of our duties.

Let's look at each one briefly (thanks to Eric for writing this!):

Keep it civil: Don't engage in personal attacks, name-calling, or blanket generalizations in your discussions. Say how you feel or what you think, but be careful about ascribing motives to the actions of others or telling others how they "should" think. People seeking to engage and discuss will find themselves asking questions, seeking clarifications, and describing their own opinion. People seeking to "win an argument" sometimes end up taking cheap shots, calling people names, and generally trying to indimidate others. My advice: don't try to win.

Keep it clean: Don't use obscenities, don't use clever tricks to run around the profanity filters, and don't link to sites with inappropriate content. The "acid test" we use is the "Grandmother Rule" -- if it would be inappropriate to say to or show to our grandmothers, don't do it. I want a typical 13 year old kid to be able to come here and participate if they want to without feeling uncomfortable. This should be a minor-friendly place. Think about it this way: how do you act around strangers or work acquaintances? You watch your language and you're on your best behavior. That's the ideal we're shooting for here.

Keep it on topic: Ok, so it's not that we actually forbid off-topic conversation. But keep in mind that this is a D&D and D20 site, with many sub-forums on lots of related topics. Try to put your posts in the right forums (it helps people find stuff, for one thing); off-topic posts go in the Off Topic forum. By popular demand, off-topic polls (not posts -- polls) are forbidden. And in this category I should mention the "no religion, no politics" rule -- please refrain from discussion of a religious or political nature. This last may seem a rather draconic rule, but it has helped keep the peace around here for a long time. There are plenty of places on the internet where one could have those sorts of discussion.

I'd also like to quickly address the issue of what to do if you feel uncomfortable because of another person on these boards. I'd hate to see someone stewing over something for weeks or months, and then leaving because they feel that the moderators don't care about their problem. It is important for you to realise that with over two million posts being made by over 32,000 members, we admins and mods can't know about everything that goes on. If you feel that there is a problem, or that someone is being mean to you or anyone else, please let a moderator know. However, please don't be offended if, in a given instance, the moderator doesn't agree with you. I can assure you that all of the moderators here do their best to be fair and frequently talk issues over. With that in mind, we do have a couple of rules when it comes to moderators, and we ask you to abide by them:

1) We appreciate that sometimes you will disagree with a moderator's decision, or feel that a request from a moderator is unfair or unjustified. With over 32,000 members, we're not going to be able to keep everyone happy all of the time, so we settle for trying to keep most people happy most of the time. Whether or not you agree with a moderator's stance, we do expect you to abide by their decisions and requests.

2) If you really, really disagree with a moderator's position on a [moderating] issue, please don't argue about it on the boards. That means no calling out of moderators, no challenging their decisions in the thread, and certainly no attempts to go over a moderator's head. The moderators all discuss such things amongst themselves, and no moderator or admin is ever going to override another. If you honestly feel that you have been treated unfairly, please contact the moderator in question privately and discuss it with them. The end result may not be the one you were seeking, but we will do our our best to be fair.

Thanks for reading! If you have a question or comment about this post, please start a thread in the Meta forum.

- Morrus, Eric, Piratecat, Henry, Darkness, Dinkeldog, Eridanis & Hypersmurf

So... are you offended. I mean, I'd think it was common sense to not curse on the boards, don't insult others, be mindful of others. So why did they post rules for it. And why would they dare think I would post links to sexually explicit sites on it. Are they trying to call some of us perves...

 

[Lamoni]

I've walked into restaurants and seen signs that say be mindful at others. There's a big push on the west coast where restaurants are posting signs telling parents to mind their children.

Sorry this is off topic, but while I agree with the sentiments of this idea, I think it is a little harder to implement in practice. I think we have all been to restaurants with crazy kids who throw tantrums, make huge messes on the table, want to run around the restaurant, etc. I have also unfortunately been at the table with the rowdy kid. Only being the child's uncle I had less authority over what was done, but it is often a no-win situation. You can let them run around or throw a tantrum. Make a mess or throw a tantrum. Sometimes they'll throw a tantrum anyway. Let me tell you that I was probably more embarrased to be sitting at the table than anyone sitting around us. I used to think that if the child can't behave don't take them to a restaurant. How are they going to learn? What if the child is only 1 and can't understand enough to be quiet? Now when I sit next to someone with a rowdy kid I just think, boy am I glad that isn't me this time. Also, every time it has happened to me, the child has normally been very well behaved but just was having a bad day.

back on topic...

I'm sorry, meeting with somone for an hour can not determine if they are socially functionable. You've just got lucky.

I agree. With an hour you can weed out the worst of them. There will be others that slip through the cracks. If a socially inept person makes it into your group, they can always be asked to leave. If someone comes into my house and starts breaking my things I'll ask them to leave. I won't start telling every visitor from that time on that breaking things in my house isn't allowed though.

Ground rules are still good and appropriate. Especially for things that common sense doesn't work for. If you don't like shoes to be worn in your house, you should let people know that. If you prefer to game with a lot of diplomacy and other role-play with little fighting, you should let people know. If you like making decisions on the fly and don't like to be bothered if it doesn't exactly jibe with what is in the rulebook, you should let people know that too. In other words, I prefer to only advertise things that are most likely different from what most people would expect. This would include the no breaks for food rule. I definately wouldn't expect that going into a game and would like to be told upfront. I might decide I don't want to live by that rule and not join, but that is a decision I would like to be able to make upfront and not be kicked out two weeks later because I wanted to order pizza.

 

[Lamoni]

So... are you offended. I mean, I'd think it was common sense to not curse on the boards, don't insult others, be mindful of others. So why did they post rules for it. And why would they dare think I would post links to sexually explicit sites on it. Are they trying to call some of us perves...

A few things worth pointing out. These boards aren't anyone's house. You can get people from all walks of life and these rules are the equivalent of the interview in the neutral place in hopes of screening the wackos.

Not cursing on boards can seem to be common sense if you greatly restrict which boards you post on and read... which I try to do. I have casually visited many more forums where cursing, insulting, etc is freely allowed and religion debates are often discussed. It makes sense to tell people that this isn't one of those places.

Third, none of the rules you quoted were worded in an offensive or hostile way like the rules that were posted at the beginning of this thread.

In conclusion. I think the rules are great. If they work for you and your gaming group and help you have fun at the table that is awesome. People who disagree with them aren't necessarily saying that you should remove your rules... only that they wouldn't have the rules in their group. I am one of them. I'd never have that set of rules in my group.

 

[Emirikol]

Yes, the questionaire is rude and insulting for anyone with a basic understanding of social etiquette. It may weed out the insane losers, but it also weeds out decent, well-adjusted people who don't like being preemptively hit on the head. That's definitely control freak territory, Emirikol.

I know. Sometimes it feels that way, but it's been useful anyways. We like to know some basic facts: name, cel phone, email, whether or not you can actually commit, and what your preferences are. The other stuff is just to wierd-out the wierder.

If we slimmed it down, what info should I REALLY be looking for in potential gamers?

jh

 

[freebfrost]

Errr, there already are rules you have to read before posting. They are even in a list format.

And just like their rules, if this was your board I'd abide by them too.

That goes without saying for any place/setting/group that has rules - you are excluded if you do not agree.

But the question is not whether you would abide by them, it is whether or not you would even *join* because of them? Would you join my board when my rules are so restrictive or just deem it not worth the trouble?

So... are you offended. I mean, I'd think it was common sense to not curse on the boards, don't insult others, be mindful of others. So why did they post rules for it. And why would they dare think I would post links to sexually explicit sites on it. Are they trying to call some of us perves...

Protection. Does Morrus really want some 8-year old kid finding explicit pictures here? Does he want to be sued by some outraged parents? Contacted by Interpol? Allow you to post viruses and trojan horses?

Of course not. You are comparing a large internet-based website with going over to game at someone's house and them handing you a list of rules. Not exactly apples and oranges there.

 

[DonTadow]

That goes without saying for any place/setting/group that has rules - you are excluded if you do not agree.

But the question is not whether you would abide by them, it is whether or not you would even *join* because of them? Would you join my board when my rules are so restrictive or just deem it not worth the trouble?

Protection. Does Morrus really want some 8-year old kid finding explicit pictures here? Does he want to be sued by some outraged parents? Contacted by Interpol? Allow you to post viruses and trojan horses?

Of course not. You are comparing a large internet-based website with going over to game at someone's house and them handing you a list of rules. Not exactly apples and oranges there.

I didn't bring up the analogy to enworld forums, Fusanginite did, and from waht I've gathered so far, you two seem to be in agreement on this. HIs point was that "what if enworld had rules" to which I answered... well err "they do have restrictive rules".

But, there is no reason that this comparsion is all that terrible. Just as Morrus doesnt want child molesters and virus makers on his site, neither do I want odd behavior and rudeness in my house. The writing in the form is very serious, because thats a serious subject to him. Sure he could put some kindly acentodes in there with some smiley faces, but then the message wouldln't come across as it should, and that is.. i take my game serious , you should to.

 

[freebfrost]

I didn't bring up the analogy to enworld forums, Fusanginite did, and from waht I've gathered so far, you two seem to be in agreement on this. HIs point was that "what if enworld had rules" to which I answered... well err "they do have restrictive rules".

Sorry, must have missed that.

But, there is no reason that this comparsion is all that terrible. Just as Morrus doesnt want child molesters and virus makers on his site, neither do I want odd behavior and rudeness in my house. The writing in the form is very serious, because thats a serious subject to him. Sure he could put some kindly acentodes in there with some smiley faces, but then the message wouldln't come across as it should, and that is.. i take my game serious , you should to.

As do I, as do many others. Likewise on the not inviting weirdos into my house. I don't question the ends, I question the means.

If I'm looking for a new gaming group, and my first impression is some long, detailed questionnaire (which I haven't seen for the record, so I'm going off the little that was posted here), and then am given a list of very restrictive rules, I would make myself scarce. So you just lost a 25 year gaming veteran right there. That is pretty poor audience targeting.

Do I abide by those (unwritten) rules? Mostly, yes I do.

Have I encountered similiar situations (long food breaks)? Yes, I have.

Even so, I have issues with someone throwing them up in my face. Respect me as an adult to *act* like an adult, don't presume that I need a list in front of me because you assume that I would be a boorish idiot at the table. That's crass.

 

[freebfrost]

And just like their rules, if this was your board I'd abide by them too.

And you are in violation of my 10 minute posting rule by the way...

<offtopic> I was checking out your website - Nuke or Nuke Platinum? </offtopic>

 

[DonTadow]

And you are in violation of my 10 minute posting rule by the way...

<offtopic> I was checking out your website - Nuke or Nuke Platinum? </offtopic>

I'd definatly faile the 10 minute thing, I get so bored at work, I need to defend and issue for no apparent reason other than to hear the others side.

It's Nuke. It's hard for me to find really good mods and coding for the Nuke offshoots