Quitting a group & starting anew..ground rules?

[IcyCool]

So what's the biggest risk... losing a few people whom may take offense, or taking in a few socially inept people.

I'd say that if you are weeding both of those out, you are getting what you are after. Playing with socially inept people can certainly suck, but so can playing with people who take offense easily (generally known as "thin-skinned").

 

[Hypersmurf]

Some would argue that these rules do need to be posted. When was the last time you went to a movie theatre and used the rest room? As an adult I know to wash my hands after taking care of business. It is disturbing to watch the number of guys do their business at the urinal and then just zip up and walk out. These are all adults and part of our society. Obviously, those "unwritten" rules everyone is supposed to know aren't working Not only that, but since the last three guys out the door didn't wash their hands, they've contaminated the door. Even if you wash your hands, you then have to dry them (using the "environment friendly" hot air units) and then touch that same door to leave, thereby voiding the whole process of washing your hands. Now when you sit down to eat your popcorn, guess what else you are eating

An elf, a gnome, and a dwarf are standing side by side at the urinal.

The elf finishes and proceeds to wash his hands, scrubbing and lathering clear up to his elbows. He turns to the other two and comments, "We elves are taught that perfect cleanliness is a virtue."

The gnome finishes, and quickly wets the tips of his fingers in the sink, commenting, "We gnomes are taught to conserve nature's resources."

The dwarf finishes and stumps out the door, gruffly retorting, "We dwarves are taught not to pee on our hands!"

-Hyp.

 

[Altalazar]

I think you just need to have mature people who are respectful of others and everything is fine. You only need rules like that if people lack a certain level of maturity and respect.

 

[farscapesg1]

An elf, a gnome, and a dwarf are standing side by side at the urinal.

The elf finishes and proceeds to wash his hands, scrubbing and lathering clear up to his elbows. He turns to the other two and comments, "We elves are taught that perfect cleanliness is a virtue."

The gnome finishes, and quickly wets the tips of his fingers in the sink, commenting, "We gnomes are taught to conserve nature's resources."

The dwarf finishes and stumps out the door, gruffly retorting, "We dwarves are taught not to pee on our hands!"

-Hyp.

Thanks for the laugh.

 

[Emirikol]

If I'm looking for a new gaming group, and my first impression is some long, detailed questionnaire (which I haven't seen for the record, so I'm going off the little that was posted here), and then am given a list of very restrictive rules, I would make myself scarce. So you just lost a 25 year gaming veteran right there. That is pretty poor audience targeting. Even so, I have issues with someone throwing them up in my face. Respect me as an adult to *act* like an adult, don't presume that I need a list in front of me because you assume that I would be a boorish idiot at the table. That's crass.

What we try to do is share our negative experiences in the past and emphasize that the game is more fun if:
a) people show up on time and ready to participate in the game
b) people respect the DM and the other players
c) people don't selfishly stop the whole game because they can't get their life together in the 332 hours between games
d) people tell the DM in the questionaire what they want in a game so that the DM can prepare ahead of time

Perhaps you haven't been gaming for very long or perhaps have 'lots of time to game' for whatever reason, but I wonder why you would call those restrictive rules when time is short or people don't particularly care to re-live bad gaming experiences of the past.

jh

 

[Emirikol]

Just FYI too:

I have three rules on character death that I tell all N00b players:
1. We use action points
2. No matter how much damage you take, you'll never go lower than -9 on an attack and you're initiative will automatically be moved to last. If you're going to die, it's either due to the fact that you're out of AP's or your fellow player characters LET YOU DIE.
3. Intelligent creatures who just plain hate your guts will 'coup' your soul.

jh

 

[DonTadow]

Thanks for the laugh.

That was funny lol.

:ff track:: is there a book of d and d jokes?

 

[Darkwolf445]

I don't think most of these rules are unreasonable. They seem to have been written with some emotion behind them (It was stated that these are not exact quotes of the rules) and it seems that the group originally agreed on/created the rules. For my part, I try to game with adults, not adult aged children, so these rules are unnecesary. I run my game once a week from 6 pm to midnight, no later (I work). You wanna screw around, your loss, now I have less I need to prep for next game.

I do recognize the problem with jerks (22 years gaming), and I either leave that group or remove the offender. Most my contacts are blind contacts and I have not had real bad problems. Lucky, I guess.

Also, my players tend to bring their own food and don't smoke (CA). The only problem child is the odious gas emission man, but most of the time he makes it to the door.

 

[Kristivas]

"Other things I do besides gaming? Uhm, nothing."

What's wrong with that? After I got divorced, I spent about a year doing the same 5 things.
1. Eating
2. Sleeping
3. Watching TV
4. Gaming
5. Reading/Writing

How would that make me inept to game with you (assuming I didn't disagree with some of your rules and wanted to)? I wasn't depressed or sad, I just didn't feel like doing anything else. When I did game, I didn't come to the table sullen and sad, I came playing the role of whichever character I was playing.. which sometimes was.. uh.. sullen and sad.. YET, that was just role playing!

"Occupation: none. It's a long story, but I just got out of doing some time."

Not everyone that's been to prison would come to your house and steal all your silverware while assaulting your spouse and beating the HELL out of your dog. I had a good friend of mine, we'll call him Mike (because that's his first name haha), whom I knew before he went to prison. He didn't come out wearing a bandanna with a nazi tattoo on his behind and talkin' slang all the time. He came out the same way he went in, though perhaps a little wiser.

Perhaps you might feel uncomfortable about having an ex-con in your house, and that's all good. I have children and would also think twice about who I let in my house. However, there are 2 things I'd like to point out..

1. He didn't HAVE to mention it to you on the application. The only people he/she has to inform is an employer, land lord, or neighbors. Being honest usually indicates that the aforementioned person probably isn't too bad of a guy.
2. You posted it here as though it was an obvious statement that this person shouldn't be allowed to game with you. That's pretty discriminatory, and you might have missed out on a decent gamer. High and mighty attitudes like that can really steer interest away from our hobby.

 

[fusangite]

So what's the biggest risk... losing a few people whom may take offense, or taking in a few socially inept people.

This is a non-existent binary. Your idea is premised on the idea that one needs a set of written rules to weed out those who are debilitatingly socially challenged. I think meeting people for coffee for half an hour sometime before they show up at your home is not only less obtrusive; it's more effective in finding people likely to be socially disruptive.

I didn't bring up the analogy to enworld forums, Fusanginite did, and from waht I've gathered so far, you two seem to be in agreement on this. HIs point was that "what if enworld had rules" to which I answered... well err "they do have restrictive rules".

That wasn't me.

With an hour you can weed out the worst of them. There will be others that slip through the cracks. If a socially inept person makes it into your group, they can always be asked to leave. If someone comes into my house and starts breaking my things I'll ask them to leave. I won't start telling every visitor from that time on that breaking things in my house isn't allowed though.

Good point. If you can't notice problems in an introductory meeting, there is always the solution of not inviting problematic people back rather than this crazy pre-emptive strike which, frankly, is more likely to attract socially dysfunctional people than it is to repel them.

Especially for things that common sense doesn't work for. If you don't like shoes to be worn in your house, you should let people know that. If you prefer to game with a lot of diplomacy and other role-play with little fighting, you should let people know. If you like making decisions on the fly and don't like to be bothered if it doesn't exactly jibe with what is in the rulebook, you should let people know that too. In other words, I prefer to only advertise things that are most likely different from what most people would expect. This would include the no breaks for food rule. I definately wouldn't expect that going into a game and would like to be told upfront. I might decide I don't want to live by that rule and not join, but that is a decision I would like to be able to make upfront and not be kicked out two weeks later because I wanted to order pizza.

Congratulations, again, on trying to carve out some kind of middle ground here. That's one of the main things I do in initial meetings with people: I explain all the ways that my game deviates from the norm to see if that's okay with them. But this is done in a way that explores our potential compatibility; the behaviour rules approach doesn't give people the sense you are mutually testing your compatibility; it gives them the sense you have power/authority issues.

I don't question the ends, I question the means.

You've hit the nail on the head here. The goal is to keep crazy people out of your campaign. In my view, a crucial part of this strategy is to (a) make sure you don't turn away sane ones, which I think the rules list does and (b) use effective tests to discern people's level of social dysfunction which again, I question whether the rules are.

What we try to do is share our negative experiences in the past and emphasize that the game is more fun if:
a) people show up on time and ready to participate in the game
b) people respect the DM and the other players

Agreed.

c) people don't selfishly stop the whole game because they can't get their life together in the 332 hours between games

Ordering food together or discussing non-gaming related things is not, in my view, selfish. Rather, doing those things helps to deepen social bonds in the gaming group which leads to, in my experience, a better group dynamic and richer, more enjoyable play. So, what you call selfish, I call community-building.

d) people tell the DM in the questionaire what they want in a game so that the DM can prepare ahead of time

Actually, I'm more of a fascist than you in this respect. I tell people what kind of game I run and they can join or not.