Quitting a group & starting anew..ground rules?

[Emirikol]

They also have a clear sense of people's on-record and off-record selves. The off-record self is a lot harder to conceal in a coffee date than on a form.But you have already credited that if someone asked the questions/stated the rules on the form, people would not be out of line in feeling offended.

I've done the coffee date thing. Don't have time for that anymore. You no doubt would have some questions and things you'd like to share with them at the coffee date however and those sorts of things, after about the 15th person interviewed, the questions would start to sound the same. The idea then is to have a set of standard questions and answers for people, whether you talk to them face to face or on paper first, correct? Maybe you just haven't done enough interviews if you still have time to do this sort of thing.

I've been playing 20+ years. I've asked all those questions. I've heard all the answers. I've played with everyone and all types of players. I've run hundreds of games for the RPGA and run at least 10 different full-fledged home campaigns. Grade school. High school. College. Graduate school. Real life. Real life with kids. Real life with kids and starting a small business. All I can say for those of you who haven't had enough BAD experiences because you weren't picky enough about who you play with..start being picky and start playing the way you want to play by using some of these types of guidelines. Don't let stupid stuff ruin your group by dealing with it after the fact every time. Be pre-emptive about having a good time.

Don't let it ruin your love of the game, like it did for me. I've been the 'burned out DM' too many times before I instituted some of these simple guidelines, and judging by the number of threads like that on this board each month, I'm not the only one who looks back with regret about allowing certain people into the game or not setting down the ground rules right away about what kind of game you like to play.

The ground rules are not an "oops, you broke the not ordering food rule, so you're fired" kind of thing. They're there so that we can play more, more consistently, and with less interruptions and inconsistency as possible. There's no excuse for 95% of the stuff that breaks up groups. People not showing up on time. People who couldn't get around to finishing their character in the 2 weeks they had between games. People who cross-table talk or get too drunk to play. Barking dogs fighting under the table. Players who rules laywer or munchkin until the DM and other players quit out of disgust. Deal with it now, or lose your group. I'm sure NONE OF YOU have ever experienced this sort of thing.

Ever wonder why this game has so many EX-players? My guess is that there've been too many "THIS SUCKS" moments and too few DM's who had the balls to recommend more than just the internal game mechanics rules.

jh

 

[Headsman]

Rules or No Rules

I understand where you're coming from. I dicided to take some time off, before finding a new group. When I begain my time off second edition was still out. I just got back into the game about 18 months ago. It took along time because of the dificulty of finding a good group that played on a schedule that worked for me.

But, on the other side, the group I am in is great. We try to maximize or gaming time because we only play twice a month, but we know that things like the new Wheel of Time book will disrupt the session. The game should move along, but it should still be fun. Here are the main rules that my group try to follow.

Read the DM's world material. We have had a player who tries to interact in a world he knows nothing about. That sucks.

Have a character concept, not just a bunch of numbers. Have a background.

Limit the off game conversations as much as possible.

If you can't make it let the DM know.

These are mostly guidelines and they work for our group. All of us play this way so they don't cause any problems. Also our DM provides dinner on game night. We bring the snacks and cokes.

I think that the only real rule a group needs is "Do you fit with our group".

 

[Kahuna Burger]

I've done the coffee date thing. Don't have time for that anymore. You no doubt would have some questions and things you'd like to share with them at the coffee date however and those sorts of things, after about the 15th person interviewed, the questions would start to sound the same. The idea then is to have a set of standard questions and answers for people, whether you talk to them face to face or on paper first, correct? Maybe you just haven't done enough interviews if you still have time to do this sort of thing.

Dude, how fast do you run through players?

All I can say for those of you who haven't had enough BAD experiences because you weren't picky enough about who you play with..start being picky and start playing the way you want to play by using some of these types of guidelines. Don't let stupid stuff ruin your group by dealing with it after the fact every time. Be pre-emptive about having a good time.

I can't envision a situation where using your rules and attitude would do that for me. I think the difference between your take and mine isn't one of quantity of expereince, its quality. The idea that those of us who don't like your proposed rules just haven't been through enough is a bit presumptuous. I'd say as a group we've been through just as much, but as different people we've come out of it with different ways of staying happy.

Ever wonder why this game has so many EX-players? My guess is that there've been too many "THIS SUCKS" moments and too few DM's who had the balls to recommend more than just the internal game mechanics rules.

playing with a dm with your definition of balls probably would make me an ex-player. Players (including DMs who imo are just another member of the group) need to find groups that work for them. Insofar as you are clearly communicating what kind of group you have, I applaud your efforts. But don't neglect the very real possibility that your group IS a "this sucks" moment for some players.

 

[Remathilis]

Ever heard the phrase "You get more with honey than with vinegar"?

In that case, I've rewritten your rules to make them less Confrontational and more guidelines. I also edited for clarity and conciseness (K.I.S.S.)

1.) All potential players must be cleared with the DM before joining, usually via a short question/answer session or questionaire.

2.) After game begins, limit non-game activities to a minimal. There will be plenty of other time to socialize.

3.) All characters must be complete and reviewed by the DM before game begins.

4.) Please be considerate to your other players and the DM.

5.) Please keep all rule-lawyering to off-game time unless it is a life-or-death matter for you or someone else's PC. Please have any relevant rule info handy before questioning. In case of ambiguity, the DM rules stands.

6.) Broken, abusive, and other characters which ruin the fun of the DM or other players will be dealt with accordingly.

7.) Please limit all game breaks (for food-runs or smokes) to as little time as possible. Plan ahead.

8.) XP is given to those who participate in the game fully. XP will be given during game downtime via e-mail. XP totals per PC may vary by 10-50%.

9.) Players (including the DM) who do not add to the fun of the game can be asked not to return by group concensus.

10.) Please provide feedback, both positive and negative. Time will be set aside every few months specifically for this, but bring all concerns up during non-game time.

11.) Character death is a fact of the game. Please Handle it with dignity.

Personally, I wouldn't play in a group with those rules as previously written, even though I generally obey the spirit of all of them.

 

[freebfrost]

Ever heard the phrase "You get more with honey than with vinegar"?

In that case, I've rewritten your rules to make them less Confrontational and more guidelines. I also edited for clarity and conciseness (K.I.S.S.)

Now this is a fantastic example of how a change in tone can make a huge difference.

Reading this list as compared to the original makes me think that this is a mature, considerate, and well-organized group that I would definitely want to join. As Remathilis says, the intent is the same, but the editing he has put into it conveys the original message of an adult, serious, gaming group while not alienating me by listing a series of behavioral rules.

 

[Emirikol]

Excellent stuff guys!

jh

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Perhaps you might feel uncomfortable about having an ex-con in your house, and that's all good. I have children and would also think twice about who I let in my house. However, there are 2 things I'd like to point out..

1. He didn't HAVE to mention it to you on the application. The only people he/she has to inform is an employer, land lord, or neighbors. Being honest usually indicates that the aforementioned person probably isn't too bad of a guy.

That doesn't really follow. But because he DID offer it freely and openly as information about himself in a questionairre whose PURPOSE is to find the best (or at least better) candidate to fill an empty player seat then he obviously (?) accepts that it might be used against him. No? Nobody has to honest - but being honest doesn't give you a free pass or relieve you of the consequences of your honesty.

2. You posted it here as though it was an obvious statement that this person shouldn't be allowed to game with you. That's pretty discriminatory, and you might have missed out on a decent gamer. High and mighty attitudes like that can really steer interest away from our hobby.

It's not high and mighty - it's choosing one over the other, it's weighing positives and negatives. If you have two applicants, both equally appealing but one is an admitted ex-con you surely wouldn't assume that because the ex-con is being honest about his past that he should then be the PREFERRED candidate.

If, as you say, the ex-con is possibly - heck, let's say he's even LIKELY to have reformed and this is indicated by his honesty then is he not going to be sanguine to a certain extent that his past mistakes are likely to haunt him in just this sort of way for a long time? His past, whether he admits it or not, places in question his character and responsibility in HIGHLY significant social areas. If he admits it and it is used against him - that is the price he will continue to pay. If he keeps it secret and it comes out later - then a price will perhaps be paid for his lack of honesty in addition to WELL-FOUNDED apprehensions about his responsibility and character.



In closing, I'd like to state that the only thing I can really fault the originally posted listing for is attitude/tone, not the underlying purpose or content.