D&D 5E Racial Min/Maxes on Ability Scores?

[Haldrik]

If at level 1, the max is 16, then the heroic "standard array" can be

15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10

Then ability score improvements from ones species will produce max:
• 16, 16, 13, 12, 11, 10
• 16, 15, 14, 12, 11, 10

 

[Haldrik]

No, thank you! I thought of the cap 16 before a long time ago, but then dismissed it without too much thought because of the "holy grail 18" from prior editions.

One can still get an 18, just not at level 1.

 

[DND_Reborn]

If at level 1, the max is 16, then the heroic "standard array" can be

15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10

Then ability score improvements from ones species will produce max:
• 16, 16, 13, 12, 11, 10
• 16, 15, 14, 12, 11, 10

Sure, that could probably work well but if you adopt the 16 + 2 (racial) bumps cap to 18, you could have a 17 still.

Would you even want the ASIs for race to be there, or just have them bump the caps? @dave2008 , what are your thoughts?

I'm inclined to remove the ASIs from race, but have the +2 ASIs bump caps to 18. So, whether you did standard array or point-buy, the max would be 15 (with a cap potentially of 18).

I'm not decided on this.

 

[DND_Reborn]

One can still get an 18, just not at level 1.

True, but only if you have a race that gives +2 ASI, and then only in that ability score, or if you use my Raising the Bar feat. It would allow a human to have a single 18 at level 4 as I see it.

 

[Haldrik]

True, but only if you have a race that gives +2 ASI, and then only in that ability score, or if you use my Raising the Bar feat. It would allow a human to have a single 18 at level 4 as I see it.

Yeah.

Also I consider the race ASI, as virtually a feat anyway. It is moreorless the same thing.

Meanwhile, the additional "feats" to improve AS have level prerequisites.

So one cant improve to 18 until level 8, or so on.

 

[Haldrik]

As an aside.

An intriguing way to keep math small is:

"proficiency" = add the ability bonus (one doesnt add the ability unless one has proficiency!)
"expertise" = the bonus from advancing to higher levels (formerly the proficiency bonus)

 

[Blue]

Haven't vetted this at all, just had an idea:

Races don't grant change ability scores. They do grant bonuses or penalty to specific checks and/or saves.

Read this as: because all d20 rolls are checks, saves, and attacks, races can modify everything except attacks. So they can make a big differance, but only a little difference in combat allowing any race to be any class.

A centaur might have a +2 STR check modifier and a +4 STR save modifier - the things that require a STR save a centaur is very good at resisting.

So a gnome might have a -2 modifier to all strength checks. They still can have the same strength modifier as the centaur for swinging a longsword, but they will have to be a much more exceptional gnome to be able to lift the same amount.

(I'd probably combine this with class granting a +2 to one ability score from a choice of two - keeps roughly the same to keep the meaningful choice between ASI or feat.)

Not sure how these affect other things, like damage or AC yet.

 

[DND_Reborn]

As an aside.

An intriguing way to keep math small is:

"proficiency" = add the ability bonus (one doesnt add the ability unless one has proficiency!)
"expertise" = the bonus from advancing to higher levels (formerly the proficiency bonus)

So without proficiency you are just rolling the flat d20 without any modifier at all? Hmm...

I'd have to work some numbers, but that might be approaching the realm of being too limited or too small.

Also, considering how few PCs ever end up with expertise in any fashion, it means proficiency bonus will hardly ever get used. Not saying that is a bad thing necessarily, but it certainly changes the mind set!

 

[jmartkdr2]

Haven't vetted this at all, just had an idea:

Races don't grant change ability scores. They do grant bonuses or penalty to specific checks and/or saves.

Read this as: because all d20 rolls are checks, saves, and attacks, races can modify everything except attacks. So they can make a big differance, but only a little difference in combat allowing any race to be any class.

A centaur might have a +2 STR check modifier and a +4 STR save modifier - the things that require a STR save a centaur is very good at resisting.

So a gnome might have a -2 modifier to all strength checks. They still can have the same strength modifier as the centaur for swinging a longsword, but they will have to be a much more exceptional gnome to be able to lift the same amount.

(I'd probably combine this with class granting a +2 to one ability score from a choice of two - keeps roughly the same to keep the meaningful choice between ASI or feat.)

Not sure how these affect other things, like damage or AC yet.

Frankly if you were to go this route I'd also reduce the link between dex mod and AC for any class that isn't already dex-based.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Races don't grant change ability scores. They do grant bonuses or penalty to specific checks and/or saves.

Read this as: because all d20 rolls are checks, saves, and attacks, races can modify everything except attacks. So they can make a big differance, but only a little difference in combat allowing any race to be any class.

Just to see if I am following this, I'll use an example of Dragonborn (STR +2).

So, the STR score is not modified. If the point-buy is a 13, the score is still 13. BUT... when this PC makes a STR ability check or STR save, they add a +2 bonus for race.

In combat, they are still STR 13, just as any other STR 13 PC, so +1 to attack rolls and +1 to damage. But the dragonborn is not any more likely to hit or do more damage due to their racial STR +2.

Is that it? Am I missing anything?