D&D 5E Racial Weapons

[guachi]

I'm not fond of racial weapons in the sense being described here.

If the elven numpty-blade was that good, everyone would use it. Is there some reason non-elves can't make them? Is there some reason non-elves can't use them?

The closest I've come is giving a elven made long sword the finesse property. But it was magical and could also cast one 1st level utility wizard spell once per day. The only thing 'elven' about it was the design, not any of its characteristics. There's nothing preventing someone else from crafting such a weapon with enough skill and the ability to enchant a weapon. Most people would probably decide that the mass market rapier is a vastly cheaper option.

 

[SmokeyCriminal]

double post

 

[SmokeyCriminal]

Issue there is that the Elf Wizard is better with a sword than every other chump Fighter who isn't also an Elf.

Well not exactly. The Fighter will still have the higher Attack and Damage Mod because it will always be his primary stat, and he will always have a higher AC, and he always has more HP. Plus the fighter has the option to pull out a Greatsword, which the Wizard Elf won't.

But your right that the Elf Wizard with an Elf sword will be at a more even playing field with a Fighter. And also an Elf Fighter with an Elf Longsword will be superior then a Human Fighter with a longsword. It's exactly what I was going for.

Maybe your right tho, in that the gap might be too large, but you have to keep in mind that every Race would have something similar. So maybe the gap isn't as large as you might think, or that it's only that large in very specific circumstances.

Rather than characters utilising a variety of weapons according to concept and/or situation.

Ya that's a really tricky problem, you don't want to disincentivize concepts, and funnel characters to a specific weapon type because it's the better option. But i think you can curb that with the Race Weapons variety.

Like the Elf with Versatile. You just make sure there is an Elven version of every category of weapon that an Elf can syngerize with. so like an Elven WarHammer, Spear, Club, Axe then you add the tag versatile, finesse, or make it lighter, or whatever.

But that also means you have to create a few weapons for every Race, which seems like a whole lot.

My whole concept of splitting the Race weapon feat and having them just synergize with the Race and Race Weapon was partly done to avoid this.

My idea was to add a 'Tag' to the Race that is either a Damage Type or Property. and just sticking it on the Race Weapon. so like;

Elf- Versatile

Dwarf - Bludgeoning

Half-Orc - Heavy

Then just adding it to the Weapon, so like;

Elven Whip - 2 gp 1d4 slashing 3 lb. Finesse, reach, Versatile (1d6)

Dwarven Whip - 2 gp 1d4 Bludgeoning 3 lb. Finesse, reach

Half-Orc Whip - 2 gp 1d4 slashing 3 lb. Finesse, reach, Heavy *maybe make it 2d4, or something*

Just a way to generate Race weapons really quick and easy. So now the Race can use it's Race Weapon better then anyone else, but anyone else can also use the weapon, but your more incentivized to stick to your own Race weapon.

I also think that this helps with the whole "Well if the weapon is so much better then why doesn't everyone on the planet use it?"

(BTW, did you mean dwarves get a +1 bonus to attack rolls with bludgeoning weapons? Or did you really mean Dwarves getting an actual attack more than other races?)

I meant a Dwarf gets a whole attack with a bludgeoning weapon more then any other Race with a bludgeoning weapon. My idea was to see how it feels if its attached to an action like a Bonus Action or maybe even Reaction.

But now how impressive does the Elf Wizard with is Elven Longsword look next to the Dwarf Wizard with his Dwarf Warhammer?

I'm also just fiddling with the power-level dial and with the weapon choice funneling issue to see what happens.

If the dwarf did get a BA with a Bludgeoining weapon, maybe the Elf would get a BA with a Versatile weapon, and Half-Orc BA with a Heavy weapon ect. ect.

When you look at one of these suggestions i'm tossing out don't compare them to what other races have right now, because they will also end up with an equivalent. Think more in terms of how it will influence player concepts, and how it would affect the worlds power level, and stuff like that.

Why wouldn't they be able to get one for themselves?
Giving a special item to one character that isn't able to make a lot of use out of it sounds like the beginning of potentially ugly party conflict: the Half-Orc and Human are going to feel pressured into getting one rather than use whatever weapon their character concept entailed, and the Dwarf wizard is going to feel pressured to give up their special item to someone who would get more use from it.

I assume they wouldn't be able to get one because it's the first session and they are in a tavern in a small town. My idea with giving the Race weapon to the Character right at the start is so that if the party never goes to a place where you could reasonably find it, the feature doesn't go unused. And to keep it equal across the board, like if you start in a dwarf town then the dwarf buys his Race weapon and the Half-orc and Elf are SOL, kinda thing.

I'm ok with a little inter-party trading and haggling, and even a little envy. Keep in mind that the Half-Orc and Human will also have their respective Race feat and Race weapons. The point is to have everyone think that everyone else's thing is really cool.

More then anything, I'm worried about making low level magical weapons obsolete. if the dwarf finds a +1 Warhammer, would he trade his Dwarven Warhammer for it? He would be loosing out on a free shove. Would he hold out in order to find a +1 Dwarven Warhammer instead? So he can have both the free shove and +1? Is the ideal balance for him to switch between the two, or for him to just want the magical weapon?

 

[Horwath]

Please no "exotic" racial weapons.

If you have need for some racial weapons, make some matrial weapons proficiencies for some races by default. Like elves with swords and bows and dwarves with hammers and axes.

You could make some "half-feats" racial to give some menuvers to that race with specific weapons sets.

 

[Dax Doomslayer]

I think I'm more inclined to go the route your thinking Horwath upon thinking about this. I definitely want each race to kind of have it's 'thing' or 'flavor' and that may be the better way to go about it. This is still in the "mulling it over" phase at this point and isn't anywhere near thought through. Thus I figured I'd ask for input.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

But your right that the Elf Wizard with an Elf sword will be at a more even playing field with a Fighter. And also an Elf Fighter with an Elf Longsword will be superior then a Human Fighter with a longsword. It's exactly what I was going for.

That is pretty much what I have issues with. However I'll withhold judgement until I see the abilities for the other races to get a full understanding.

Like the Elf with Versatile. You just make sure there is an Elven version of every category of weapon that an Elf can syngerize with. so like an Elven WarHammer, Spear, Club, Axe then you add the tag versatile, finesse, or make it lighter, or whatever.

As you say creating a racial version for every weapon for every race seems unnecessary. The 5e table has very broad categories, and it is really hard to justify why an "Elven longsword" for example falls outside the existing longsword category when it is covers almost every long-blade weapon between about 21/2ft to 4 ft. There is probably a greater difference in design and use between an arming sword, a katana, and a judicial longsword than there is between a human-made longsword and an elven-made longsword.

My idea was to add a 'Tag' to the Race that is either a Damage Type or Property. and just sticking it on the Race Weapon. so like;

Elf- Versatile

Dwarf - Bludgeoning

Half-Orc - Heavy

Then just adding it to the Weapon, so like;

Elven Whip - 2 gp 1d4 slashing 3 lb. Finesse, reach, Versatile (1d6)

Dwarven Whip - 2 gp 1d4 Bludgeoning 3 lb. Finesse, reach

Half-Orc Whip - 2 gp 1d4 slashing 3 lb. Finesse, reach, Heavy *maybe make it 2d4, or something*

I have some conceptual issues with a whip that is usable effectively in two-hands, but much more with a heavy, finesse weapon, and a "Dwarven Battleaxe" that would appear to deal bludgeoning damage.
Of greater concern is the actual balance issue with the Half-Orc Whip: A Finesse, reach weapon that you can gain the GWM damage bonus with.

If the dwarf did get a BA with a Bludgeoining weapon, maybe the Elf would get a BA with a Versatile weapon, and Half-Orc BA with a Heavy weapon ect. ect.

Free BA attacks are a pretty massive deal. A character that wanted to use a weapon outside their racial preferences would be losing out a lot.

When you look at one of these suggestions i'm tossing out don't compare them to what other races have right now, because they will also end up with an equivalent. Think more in terms of how it will influence player concepts, and how it would affect the worlds power level, and stuff like that.

I am, and what I think I'm seeing is going beyond "encouraging" races to use racial weapons and dangerously close to "forcing".

I think I'm more inclined to go the route your thinking Horwath upon thinking about this. I definitely want each race to kind of have it's 'thing' or 'flavor' and that may be the better way to go about it. This is still in the "mulling it over" phase at this point and isn't anywhere near thought through. Thus I figured I'd ask for input.

If you really want to push a character into using the weapons you believe that they have a preference for, and simple proficiency isn't cutting it, may I suggest a straight +1 to hit?
Or maybe a +1 to hit with a weapon that you have racial proficiency in if you also have proficiency in it from your class?

Simple, probably doesn't break anything, doesn't require a dozen different varieties of each weapon, doesn't invalidate a magic weapon. A character that goes outside their racial proficiencies is giving up a big advantage, but not a huge one.

 

[Mephista]

I'm more wondering what these exotic weapons would actually -be-. Like, what's are they designed to do? An extendable staff that has the reach quality as well as ability to be hidden in the palm of your hand?


Now, just having a racial weapon feat that adds tags to weapons would be pretty cool. Though, I'd probably do Finesse for elves. Versatile feels more dwarvish to me.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Racial weapons can be implemented as pure fluff. E.g., race X uses double-bladed longswords. It's still a longsword stat-wise, but it looks badass, and only members of that race can use it without Disadvantage.

That way you avoid the inevitable power creep that occurs when you make up your own stats.

 

[GreenTengu]

I don't think it is a good idea.

It can be toxic to have a weapon that is 100% heads and above "the best" for a class, nah-- in this case-- an entire race, then it doesn't feel as much a "bonus" for anyone who plays the character in-theme but rather it will come across as a penalty for anyone who doesn't choose to specialize in the "right" choice. Right now the 5E weapon table is pretty well balanced with the glaring exception of the rapier which in and of itself screws up the balance of the attributes across the whole game. In fact, I would say that the best way to make it ideal would be instead of basing damage die on what weapon you are holding, to base it on class with the held weapon only accounting for whether it it light, one-handed, two-handed or reach. So that a Fighter with a club would just deal a higher damage die with the club than a Wizard with a club. After all, surely if I gave a police baton to a soldier they are going to be able to use it better than a college history student with no military training and strength alone isn't going to be accounting entirely for that.


Isn't it an odd assertion when you really think about it? Look at the weapons in the simple weapons category and realize that the game is saying that literally everyone who has the simple weapons proficiency (i..e literally everyone) knows how to use these weapons to their absolute peak possible efficiency and only physical skill alone can make any difference-- but if you put a weapon the Martial weapons category in that person's hand, they couldn't actually hit anything. In fact, I would say that it is much easier to get effective results with less skill out of some of those Martial weapons than it would be to be skilled enough to get results out of some of those simple weapons. Fighting effectively with a Quarterstaff requires a good deal more knowing what you are doing than a longsword.


Anyway, why flanderize n entire race more than it already has been? The entire weapons table is made up of weapons that humans created and used in battles across centuries. And it isn't even like "nation A used only X and nation B used only Y"-- instead, some version of these various weapons were used in every single nation across all of Europe and Asia and parts of Africa with maybe small changes in shape or weight that really don't make that much of a difference when you boil it down to dice rolls.

Why shouldn't there be Elfs that use whips or halberds just as effectively as another may use a longsword or a bow? Surely elven society across all the different city states should be plenty diverse enough for such training to exist.
Why limit your version and enforce a hardline rule that means Orcs are always taking an even more massive penalty than they do now if using Scimitars or lances? Surely there are some Orc tribes out there that favor these weapons and yet are just as dangerous as those that use flails or great axes.

An average of 1 damage every single attack may not seem like a huge game changer. I am sure there are even old school players who will boast that they have intentionally taken bigger penalties and "never even noticed a difference". But, realistically, we all know that players are going to chase min/maxing to squeeze out every last +1 they can to all roll (and, really, the difference between a d6 and d8 and especially d10 is much bigger than a +1 on a d20) and are perfectly rational in doing so as that extra +1 can mean all the difference between success and failure.

 

[Weiley31]

I would identify these weapons as Heritage Weapons and would allow the appropriate race/heritage weapons to be able to train to upgrade the damage die of said weapons by 1 whole damage die.

So an Elf using a Longsword, could spend downtime training and upgrade the 1D8 to a 1D10. If they spend time using downtime to train in the Shortsword, they could then upgrade it from a 1D6 to a 1D8. And that's only cuz these weapons are considered Heritage Weapons to Elves. An Elf wouldn't be able to do this with a Great Axe because, the Great Axe isn't a Racial/Heritage Weapon.

As for races that don't have Racial/Heritage Weapons like them Humans? I would pretty much allow them to be able to spend downtime to learn how to Specialize with a weapon, which would then allow them to spend more time training to increase the damage die of a weapon to the next level up like before.

For the sake of balance, any damage die upgrading would ONLY be able to go up one damage die and that's it.