D&D 5E Racial Weapons

[Dax Doomslayer]

Hi Folks,
I understand the 5E simplicity for weapons and armor. That said, I've been toying with the idea of creating a "Racial Weapon Feat" and adding some racial weapons as options. Basically, these weapons would be available potentially to be used by anyone but without the feat, it would be at Disadvantage (I guess)? The feat would grant races a favorite weapon which are from the standard list (i.e. Elves with longsword/longbow; shortsword/shortbow) an increase to the next sized die for damage (i.e. longsword does a d8 and with this feat it becomes a d10). In addition, it would add maybe a couple of new 'exotic' weapons that only that race can use which may have different stats or traits (kind of like what 3rd Edition did). My players seem to think that this would be a good idea as they feel it would make each race more unique and flavorful potentially as they feel that different races would have different 'technology' to take advantage of their builds and resources. Has anyone done anything like this? I'd also prefer that it just not be a 'power up' (some may be but I'd prefer versatility). For instance for Elves they would get a bigger die of damage for longswords; longbows; shortswords and shortbows. They would also have access to Elven Light Blade (d6; Piercing; Finesse; Thrown); Elven Thin blade (d8; Piercing; Finesse; allows wielder to use one attack action to parry an attack via opposed roll); Elven Courtblade (d10; Slashing; Finesse; 2-HD). Now, I just pulled these examples out of thin air without much thought to give as examples. Perhaps even limit these feats to Martial type characters only also. This is in the early 'thought' stage but I was curious to see what others have done for this (i.e. what weapons added and properties) and how it affected their games. Thanks for any input!!

 

[Satyrn]

Perhaps even limit these feats to Martial type characters only also. This is in the early 'thought' stage but I was curious to see what others have done and how it affected their games. Thanks for any input!!

My initial input is don't do that. Er, I mean, don't limit it to just Martial types. Partly because they're already kinda limited to them already just by the fact that the feats will (likely) only be picked up by martial types.

But also I think doing so will interfere with your goal - you want this to be a signature thing for the races, you want the feel of elven wizard wielding elven weapons.


Oh another idea. Along with racial weapons, think about including racial technology in the same feat. I don't know what the tech would really look like, but I'm thinking things like clockwork for gnomes, waybread for elves; that sort of thing. So, uh, stretching the definition of "tech."

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

The 5e weapons table is already very broad, and covers many different weapons in a single category. What distinguishes an "Elven thin blade" for example from all the other light, slim swords designed for thrusting and parrying that make up the existing "Rapier" category? If it is so superior to the rapier, why do people still use rapiers rather than everyone using the better weapon?
Unless the elves of that world approach being an isolationist hivemind, or these weapons require materials found only in the Elven homeland, technology spreads and people take up the better tech over the inferior one.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

. . .

 

[cbwjm]

Actually, it might be worth looking at the UA weapon feats document. That might give you some ideas of how to create a racial weapon feat.

 

[Dax Doomslayer]

Points are well taken Cap'n. I could say that yes the quality of the weapon / composition of the weapon or simply the way the weapon is built toward the elf physiology. I would also say with regard to the spread of technology, my opinion is that I think you are looking at it with more of a 'modern day' type of sensibility too. If one's campaign is more a 'points of light' type of situation, my take on it is that the spread of information / technology would be slow at best and most common folk really wouldn't know what's going on say 100 miles away normally but I guess that's a bit irrelevant here as each person's game world is a bit different. However, I am just looking more for a little flavor and maybe a little more oomph and nothing over the top and figured I'd see what people thought. Mouseferatu came up with some decent ideas in the other thread and it is things like that which would go a long way. I appreciate the input!!

 

[thorgrit]

I can think of some knobs to turn for modifying weapons. First, rather than disadvantage, I'd suggest just using the normal proficiency rules - if a character is using a weapon they're not proficient with, they just don't add their proficiency bonus to the attack roll.

Treat a racial weapon as Simple instead of Martial for members of that race.
Make proficiency bonus 1 higher on attack rolls with the weapon.
Increase critical range with the weapon
Increase the average but not maximum damage of the weapon similar to 4e's Brutal property - ie reroll 1s
Increase critical damage with the weapon (instead of rolling twice the damage dice, roll 1 and treat the other as maximized; or roll 3 times and pick which set of 2)
Allow a Versatile weapon to be used one-handed but with the Versatile damage die
Make or modify lesser-used weapons that, when used by a character of that race, are statistically similar to "overused" weapons, for flavor reasons.
If you use fumble rules, negate the effects of a fumble when using that weapon.
Harder for foes to Disarm the wielder of that weapon
Bonus to Charisma (Intimidation) checks when weapon is visibly carried
Bonus to Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) checks made to hide the weapon on one's person
Ability to do nonlethal damage with a ranged or thrown attack
Can act as a spellcasting focus
Can be drawn as a free action
Normal thrown range increased
Can treat the weapon as Light/Heavy if it normally doesn't have that property
Can be treated as if it had the Thrown property if it normally doesn't

That's all off the top of my head, sorry it's a bit disorganized, and ranges from rarely-usable to probably-too-powerful.

 

[Dax Doomslayer]

Ahhh - very nice throgrit!! Thank you for this list. This is exactly the type of thing I was thinking about! I appreciate the effort.

 

[SmokeyCriminal]

Why make it a Feat at all?

For the most part characters have their first two ASIs spoken for, it's usually at least one stat bump and one Feat, which means a lot of characters won't be able to come around to your Racial Weapon Feat untill 12th level. Or they'll have to push back their intended build which puts a huge burden on you to make Feats that compete. And even still it wont be a thing untill 4th level at the earliest.

I say, forget the Feat. Chop it up into two pieces and give a piece to the Weapon and a piece to the Race itself. For example;

Elves; Can use the Versatile property with one hand.
So now even a Wizard Elf will carry around a longsword

Then make an Elven sword like, Elven Longblade (d8 slashing, Versatile (d10), Finesse)
and now the 2 things synergize so the Elf Wizard will consider using the sword to attack cuz its a d10+Dex instead of using a staff like every other chump wizard.

And just let him start the game with the Elven Longsword, because he's an Elf.

And since its not a Feat you can semi-pilfer actual Feats or Feat-Ideas like WotC does sometimes, and say "Well, we don't assume a game allows Feats."

Then you can do nutty things like;

Dwarf; Bonus Attack with Bludgeoning weapons

Dwarven-Metal War Maul (2d6, Bludgeoning, Heavy, Two-Handed, When Used as a Bonus Action Attack you can also Shove for free)

So even tho anyone can use the Weapon itself, only the Dwarfs synergy lets you use the special shove action. and a Dwarf in ANY Class will be able to use it, as apposed to a different Race needing a specific Class or Feat to use it (I think you get a Bonus Action Attack with the GWM Feat if you kill a creature, and I think the Barb Class has a Bonus Attack with Frenzy which causes exhaustion).

But I think that's a good balance for it; Any Class of a Race synergizes with his Race Weapon, so they always carry one. And certain specific Feats/Class/Feature syngerizes with it so other Races want them too. It's so that not ONLY Dwarves will care about Dwarven weapons, a Half-orc Barb or a Human Fighter with GWM will drool as soon as they see one.

And it'll be fun to see the Fighter and Barb Beg the Dwarf wizard to let them have his cool hammer "'cuz you don't really need it, right? you have magic, and we will use it way more often, right? come on, please."

But all this would prob bump the power curve up for the party a bit at levels 1-5, and min/maxes will lean into it i'm sure.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

If you allow variant humans, you could just allow elves and dwarves to swap out their +2 ability bonus for a UA weapon feat: Dwarves can pick Fell-Handed, elves can pick the sword one (maybe Wood Elves can pick the spear one instead.)

Points are well taken Cap'n. I could say that yes the quality of the weapon / composition of the weapon or simply the way the weapon is built toward the elf physiology.

Is elf physiology in terms on physics and biomechanics really that much different from humans in your world? Elves are more graceful, humans are often more athletic, but the differences between two humans will often be greater than that between an elf and a human. Likewise materials: a longsword made of titanium is going to be lighter and faster, but the damage likely won't be any greater and will still be dependent upon the muscular power of the wielder to move it around.

I would also say with regard to the spread of technology, my opinion is that I think you are looking at it with more of a 'modern day' type of sensibility too. If one's campaign is more a 'points of light' type of situation, my take on it is that the spread of information / technology would be slow at best and most common folk really wouldn't know what's going on say 100 miles away normally but I guess that's a bit irrelevant here as each person's game world is a bit different.

I'm looking at it from a medieval type of sensibility: there were long trade routes and merchants plying them since before there was steel. "Common folk" didn't travel much, but merchants and tradesmen did, and passed on discoveries and methods as well as goods. You're correct that in a "points of light" setting where there are few bastions of civilisation surrounded by horrors, and only the few, high-level characters are able to travel between them, things are going to be rather more isolated though.

However, I am just looking more for a little flavor and maybe a little more oomph and nothing over the top and figured I'd see what people thought. Mouseferatu came up with some decent ideas in the other thread and it is things like that which would go a long way. I appreciate the input!!

If making racial superior weapons is your aim, there have been some threads here I believe where they expanded the weapons table. Often this just consisted of "orientalising" an existing weapon by giving it more damage, finesse and a different name. If you can dig them out, that sounds like the sort of thing you might be after.

Then make an Elven sword like, Elven Longblade (d8 slashing, Versatile (d10), Finesse)
and now the 2 things synergize so the Elf Wizard will consider using the sword to attack cuz its a d10+Dex instead of using a staff like every other chump wizard.

Issue there is that the Elf Wizard is better with a sword than every other chump Fighter who isn't also an Elf.

Dwarf; Bonus Attack with Bludgeoning weapons

Dwarven-Metal War Maul (2d6, Bludgeoning, Heavy, Two-Handed, When Used as a Bonus Action Attack you can also Shove for free)

So even tho anyone can use the Weapon itself, only the Dwarfs synergy lets you use the special shove action. and a Dwarf in ANY Class will be able to use it, as apposed to a different Race needing a specific Class or Feat to use it (I think you get a Bonus Action Attack with the GWM Feat if you kill a creature, and I think the Barb Class has a Bonus Attack with Frenzy which causes exhaustion).

But I think that's a good balance for it; Any Class of a Race synergizes with his Race Weapon, so they always carry one.

Rather than characters utilising a variety of weapons according to concept and/or situation.

(BTW, did you mean dwarves get a +1 bonus to attack rolls with bludgeoning weapons? Or did you really mean Dwarves getting an actual attack more than other races?)

And certain specific Feats/Class/Feature syngerizes with it so other Races want them too. It's so that not ONLY Dwarves will care about Dwarven weapons, a Half-orc Barb or a Human Fighter with GWM will drool as soon as they see one.

And it'll be fun to see the Fighter and Barb Beg the Dwarf wizard to let them have his cool hammer "'cuz you don't really need it, right? you have magic, and we will use it way more often, right? come on, please."

Why wouldn't they be able to get one for themselves?
Giving a special item to one character that isn't able to make a lot of use out of it sounds like the beginning of potentially ugly party conflict: the Half-Orc and Human are going to feel pressured into getting one rather than use whatever weapon their character concept entailed, and the Dwarf wizard is going to feel pressured to give up their special item to someone who would get more use from it.