Racially diverse artwork in D&D...does it influence you?

[eyebeams]

There's something a bit weird about diversity of skin colour in D&D. You already have all these fantasy races - elves, orcs, etc - which don't exist in our world. To say that in addition there are black halflings, asian dwarves and so forth is too much. I feel that the fantasy races of D&D worlds can serve as a stand in for whatever you want to say about race in our own. Or do away with the pointy-eared folks. But then it wouldn't be D&D so you can't.

I'm really trying to find a reading of this that isn't a problem. If you have one human ethnicity it implies that the other ethnicities aren't human. If you deny multiple ethnicities to other fantasy "races" it strains credulity, as every other real world species with any significant genetic diversity has ethnicities and marked hereditary differences in appearance.

 

[eyebeams]

I find the notion that Dwarves are based on Jews to be rather bizarre, seeing as how they're straight from Norse sagas: runes, names and all.

I wouldn't call it a good idea, but it was Tolkien's idea.

 

[hong]

I wouldn't call it a good idea, but it was Tolkien's idea.

Do you have a cite? This is the first I've heard of it.

 

[eyebeams]

Do you have a cite? This is the first I've heard of it.

You can start with Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf_(Middle-earth)

The citations in the article are well-sourced. They are *also* based n Norse mythology, but many of the traits that are specifically Tolkienish aren't from there.

 

[Plissken]

This is what fantasy should be, IMHO, an all-inclusive genre. Why do dark-skinned people have to come from an african-esque land, when there are plenty of fantasy games (including D&D) who happily mish-mash euro-centric and sometimes non euro-centric cultures into something totally different from any real world examples? Please tell me what real world culture is Eberron based on? The inability to accept that an adventurer could be dark-skinned in D&D, without him coming from a pseudo-african nation, is IMHO a lack of imagination on the part of those who can't accept it. For an example in the real world just look at Rome...a multitude of ethnicities brought under their rule interacted on various levels throughout Rome's history. With the predominance of ancient empire's in the default D&D setting, I don't see why the same thing occurring is any less "believable" or would actually

Imaro, I think you make an excellent point here. I hate it when, people who are a different color than white, people feel that they should come from someplace considered exotic, strange, or different to be mixed into a larger dominant setting. Why can't they just be considered a different skin color from that area. As you said, "why do people who are dark skinned have to come from an African-esque land?" For example, with Asians you've got the whole Oriental Adventures campaign setting and the Kuei Jin in the Old World of Darkness.

I think another thing that should be mentioned is we should see more "darker" heroes. Shades of dark is usually associated with evil. When it isn't, it usually takes on the role of the "Noble Savage." You know, that one dark dude who rejects his heritage to become civilized and different from the rest.

If you're playing a game that is about medieval Europe which no doubt should involve a large white population, than I understand. However, D&D is more S&S in its roots.

 

[Plissken]

I think I can bottom line this. Today, in 2008, we, in the western world, live in a multi-ethnic world. Our popular culture should reflect this. If it doesn't, then there's a problem.

I really don't care if the setting is pseudo-european or not. It's being written in 2008, and it should reflect our current value system. Filling the book entirely with white people is a bad idea for business.

Yes, this was what I said in a long post I made but lost because of EnWorld downtime. My point exactly.

 

[CountPopeula]

Tolkien actually said that dwarves were inspired by the Jews and semitic peoples and languages, as well as medieval literature about the Jews. (Yeah, that means that some things about dwarves are rather insensitive when viewed through that light.) The idea that they're Scottish-like is a fan invention. Same thing with Celtic elves, as Tolkien wanted to specifically *exclude* Celtic influence from Middle-Earth. Symbolically speaking, elves are supposed to be people without Catholic original sin.

Orcs? Well, he said some things that indicate they probably come from a combination of wordplay and some unfortunate, wholly unconscious attitudes which he certainly consciously repudiated, but still exist.

I think in practice, the elves as the nobility and orcs as the proletariat works in the context of the story. After all, all that makes Aragorn worthy of being the king of men is that he's half-elf and comes from a long line of human nobility. A human nobility, which, by the way, caused this whole mess in the first place. But because of his bloodline he's worthy of "saving" the world from the evils Sauron represents, like indoor plumbing, so they can be subservient to him and his wife the elf princess in an agrarian society, free to be surfs.

To be sure, other parts can be read as Sauron representing big industry and the message is mainly pro-environmental, this is the message hippies tended to take away from it, and the angle the cinematography in the movies played up. But it's much more pro-elitist than pro-earth.

Contrast this with JK Rowling, where the noble class is portrayed as racist and evil, willing to commit unspeakable horrors to protect their position and birthright. There's not a single rich person in the books who isn't a complete horse's ass. And these rich, racially "pure" nobles get brought down by a couple of poor, "racially-inferior" kids.

I think the problem with saying that racial diversity in D&D comes from demi-humans, well... if your idea of diversity is all different kinds of white people...

The thing is, D&D was created in the 70's. In fact, Chainmail was first published in 1971, seven years after the passing of the Civil Rights Act, and three years after the death of Dr. King. It's from a different time. And the racial ideas need to change.

Example: Angus, Thongs and Perfect Snogging. The books are very thinly veiled auto-biographies of a woman who went to high school in the 1970's. They're very anachronistic in that they're ostensibly set in the present day, but no one has a computer or a mobile. Also, everyone is white. So for the movie, one of the main characters is of Indian descent. Why? Because it's 2008, not 1975.

 

[Korgoth]

You can start with Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf_%28Middle-earth%29

The citations in the article are well-sourced. They are *also* based n Norse mythology, but many of the traits that are specifically Tolkienish aren't from there.

You cited Wikipedia? That's ludicrous.

Tolkien's dwarves are Norse dwarves. If any group is based upon the Jews it would be the elves.

The elves, by the way, are not "without original sin". Read the Silmarillion.

Note: By "read the Silmarillion" I mean refer back to it; I assume that you have read it already.

 

[S'mon]

I've tended towards the anti-Diversity side here, but my favourite ever PC Zana Than was a black female human Sarcosan Ironborn Fighter in the Midnight setting. The art was a bit ambiguous as to what Sarcosans looked like, but they were dark skinned descendants of a mighty cosmopolitan empire so I saw them as a mix of African and Persian physically, with culture a mix of Byzantine and Persian, maybe some Arabic. I think Midnight is an example of cultures handled very well - the Sarcosans, Dorn and others all felt very real.

 

[S'mon]

Let me be as blunt as I can, so that we don't misunderstand each other. Suppose I created a setting which had no tokens whites and the ethnic types of all the characters were dark skinned. This seems like a perfectly good and potentially interesting setting to me. Suppose an observer of that setting said, "I can't relate to that setting because all the characters are black.", how would you react to that person?

I guess I'd shrug. Maybe I'd find it a bit squicky, depending on the person. Personally I find culture more important than race - I might have trouble identifying with the protagonists of say an Aztec setting, no matter what they looked like. Ancient Egypt or medieval Japanese worldviews were also suffciently alien that playing a serious game in thiose settings could be hard. Also this is a reason so many sf settings have default cultures strongly resembling modern USA.
On your specific example, I might find a setting that was medieval Europe only everyone looked African to be cheesy, unless there was a good explanation. Skin tone per se is probably not a big deal - like I said, I love Wilderlands' green, red, and blue people - but Wilderlands does a good job relating it to specific origins and characteristics of those races, eg red-skinned Altanians are fiery tempered, Avalonians are calm and connected to ice, Viridians are descended from Mermen.