Racially diverse artwork in D&D...does it influence you?

[S'mon]

ASouthern Spain (I was watching a doco on Al Andalus last night) was a melting pot of Northern European (Visigoths) and North African (Berber) with significant populations of Jews and Arabs as well.

The Berbers I've seen are paler than most Italians. Most Arabs are white too, though some from Arabia are heavily tanned and there are a few partly descended from black slaves. Othello as a black African is a modern thing. FWIW the US Census dept counts all north Africans, Arabs, Persians etc as white. Also FWIW, genetically they cluster with Europeans; so do most south-Asian Indians.

 

[S'mon]

All of which is slightly off topic anyway: the question is about art work in a modern 21st century product sold, mostly, in western nations. Should that art work be inclusive of all the ethnicities present in said communities? Hell yes. And I think anyone who hopes to sell a product to as wide a market as possible should have the sense to see this. That they would have the sensitivity as well would be nice.

I think this is true about the marketing. Among my non-Anglo players, as I recall the Hispanic players played PCs from the quasi-Spanish part of my campaign world, the male east-Asian player played a white female PC, the south Asian Sikh player liked to play non-humans - dwarves, elves and such, and indicated to me he'd like to see more racial diversity in fantasy, especially among the protagonists.

Him: "None of the villains in Lord of the Rings were white."
Me: "Um... Wormwood?"

 

[S'mon]

On launch day, the game was full of complaints about this, and from the people making those choices, complaints that the features on the faces were too African...

To me, that's very telling of a number of different things about gamers.

That most gamers are white, and they want their fantasy personae to resemble idealised versions of themselves? That hardly seems controversial. Black, south-Asian, east-Asian etc gamers seem to feel the same way.

 

[Snoweel]

To me, that's very telling of a number of different things about gamers.

I'd say it's more representative of people in general.

Though for you to think ethnocentrism is a feature exclusive to "gamers" (and your complaint is explicitly with the white ones playing Nightfall) is "very telling of a number of different things about" you.

 

[Ginnel]

You know, the most obvious example of a black man in the core books to me was the painting of Othello and Iago in the DMG in the skill challenge section. Perhaps because it's really really obviously Lawrence Fishburn and Kenneth Branagh.

Its not Kenneth Branagh, its Eddie Izzard.

bringing us on to more diversity

 

[CountPopeula]

You know, it occurs to me that I never really answered the question in the topic, even though everyone basically knows how I feel about it. So I won't buy a book because it has racial diversity. But I might *not* buy a book I might have been interested in if it lacks any sort of diversity. It does depend on what it is. I read the Angus Thongs books even though the characters are all white... probably, I don't think they're actually described physically in any real detail.

If I felt that there was a conscious effort to exclude non-whites from a product, I wouldn't buy it. And I would probably regard it in much the same way I regard Heroes Now!

It's kind of like Star Trek. Gene Roddenberry created it to push a specific political agenda with regards to race. Dr. King himself saw the importance of simply having a black woman in the cast of the show. Uhura wasn't the star, but just being there made a difference. It makes a difference that people of different races are just there, just doing what everyone else is doing. It may not matter to everyone what colour the little hobbits are in the PHB, but it probably matters to SOMEONE.

As for my earlier hand waving joke... well... I don't want to be accused of making a straw man argument, so I'll say something substantive. I think wanting to exclude images of non-whites from any sort of popular media is racist, flat out. And I think no matter what the justification given is, it's unacceptable. I think a conscious desire to exclude blacks is racist by the very definition of the word.

And since everyone else seems to want to point out their race in this topic, I think I should point out that all my opinions are coloured by being one of the whitest people in the world. Like Conan O'Brien and Dennis Leary shades of white.

 

[CountPopeula]

Its not Kenneth Branagh, its Eddie Izzard.

bringing us on to more diversity

I just did a little experiement...

Eddie Izzard: http://l.yimg.com/img.tv.yahoo.com/tv/us/img/site/84/33/0000038433_20070313144158.jpg

Kenneth Branagh: http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/MMPH/226872~Kenneth-Branagh-Posters.jpg

Has anyone ever seen them in the same place at the same time?

 

[Snoweel]

I think a conscious desire to exclude blacks is racist by the very definition of the word.

Likewise, a conscious desire to include any race - black or otherwise - is racist "by the very definition of the word".

That we're all making a fuss about the skin colour of characters in a series of illustrations is in itself racist.

The colour of the characters is irrelevent - is anyone here, as a DM, going to describe their NPCs as 'black', 'white' or anything else?

And if so give an example of how and why.

 

[RabidBob]

I never thought of it that way. Clearly that was more impressive upon me than my father's constant use of racial slurs to refer to anyone who wasn't white (if he didn't know them...once he got to know you, he never again referred to you with the slur word in private).

... the more I think about this the more confused I become. It's like saying "I hate all [ethnic group] except the ones I know and like."

... wtf?

It's a wonder you didn't grow up very confused mate, I know I would have!

 

[Snoweel]

... the more I think about this the more confused I become. It's like saying "I hate all [ethnic group] except the ones I know and like."

It's not all that uncommon actually, though he probably hasn't described it so well.

It's very common for people (particularly whites) to meet people of differing ethnicities with a preconceived expectation that they will be hated.

Obviously a common reaction to hatred is hostility.

So with regards to the exception of "the ones I know and like" - when these individuals have proven they don't hate the subject there is obviously no animosity there.