Racially diverse artwork in D&D...does it influence you?

[RabidBob]

Him: "None of the villains in Lord of the Rings were white."
Me: "Um... Wormwood?"

Wormtoungue you mean?

Saruman as well. Very white. Saruman the White even.

 

[RabidBob]

It's not all that uncommon actually, though he probably hasn't described it so well.

It's very common for people (particularly whites) to meet people of differing ethnicities with a preconceived expectation that they will be hated.

Obviously a common reaction to hatred is hostility.

So with regards to the exception of "the ones I know and like" - when these individuals have proven they don't hate the subject there is obviously no animosity there.

Interesting; I've not come across that kind of thing before. There's plenty of racism around here in England but mostly it's just plain old bigotism.

 

[CountPopeula]

The colour of the characters is irrelevent - is anyone here, as a DM, going to describe their NPCs as 'black', 'white' or anything else?

And if so give an example of how and why.

That's really not the topic, though. I contend the artwork in the books should have people of all different skin colors. What the GMs do in their own game isn't the issue. I also contend mainstream television should have more bisexual characters. But I wouldn't say everyone who watches Torchwood has to date girls and guys just because Jack does.

I'm not saying that your game in your home has to include a single minority. I am saying the official artwork for the flagship title of an entire industry ought to. It's a matter of what is for public consumption and what isn't.

As important as it was, to the genre and television at large, for Star Trek to have Lt Uhura, it's important for D&D, for RPGs as a whole, to embrace racial diversity.

 

[S'mon]

Wormtoungue you mean?

Saruman as well. Very white. Saruman the White even.

Wormtongue, yup. I think I mentioned Saruman, my player pointed out he wasn't human. In the Return of the King the 'Voice of Sauron' is probably white, but a very minor character. I guess the Corsairs of Umbar must be pretty white, being of Numenorean descent.


Anyway, I think his real concern was more about lack of non-white protagonists than white villains.

 

[S'mon]

It's very common for people (particularly whites) to meet people of differing ethnicities with a preconceived expectation that they will be hated.

Whites expect to be hated more than non-whites? Seems unlikely to me.

 

[S'mon]

The colour of the characters is irrelevent - is anyone here, as a DM, going to describe their NPCs as 'black', 'white' or anything else?

Yeah, any time the NPC is of a different race than the majority in the campaign area, I'd note it when describing them. If the game is in Altanis where people have red skin, and the PCs meet a green-skinned Viridian, I'd inform the players of that fact. Same as saying "He's an elf/dwarf/halfling".

 

[Snoweel]

There's plenty of racism around here in England but mostly it's just plain old bigotism.

Honestly, how would you know peoples' motivations for displaying racist behaviour?

Often the 'racists' themselves don't know why.

Western people are well aware that racism is bad - can you think of a modern protagonist who is obviously racist? I can't.

I bet we can come up with a comprehensive list of racist villains though.

As important as it was, to the genre and television at large, for Star Trek to have Lt Uhura, it's important for D&D, for RPGs as a whole, to embrace racial diversity.

Sure but do you really expect WotC to take the hit in the wallet in the name of social engineering? I'm sure they employed capable market researchers. They know what side their bread is buttered on - have a look at Arcady's example of Guildwars: Nightfall.

And it was no accident that Lt Uhura was black while Captain Kirk was a white guy.

Whites expect to be hated more than non-whites? Seems unlikely to me.

Really? Whites aren't reknowned for their historical subjugation of darker-skinned peoples? Whites aren't seen as responsible for the problems in the third world?

Plenty of white people have an understandable fear of retribution. Whites are in almost every case the ones accused of racism in the modern world, and certainly in the media all racist characters are white.

Yeah, any time the NPC is of a different race than the majority in the campaign area, I'd note it when describing them. If the game is in Altanis where people have red skin, and the PCs meet a green-skinned Viridian, I'd inform the players of that fact. Same as saying "He's an elf/dwarf/halfling".

My point exactly.

 

[Ginnel]

That's really not the topic, though. I contend the artwork in the books should have people of all different skin colors. What the GMs do in their own game isn't the issue. I also contend mainstream television should have more bisexual characters. But I wouldn't say everyone who watches Torchwood has to date girls and guys just because Jack does.

I'm not saying that your game in your home has to include a single minority. I am saying the official artwork for the flagship title of an entire industry ought to. It's a matter of what is for public consumption and what isn't.

As important as it was, to the genre and television at large, for Star Trek to have Lt Uhura, it's important for D&D, for RPGs as a whole, to embrace racial diversity.

Yuppity yup yup yup. THIS this.here.is.sense.

In terms of the core rulebook dam right there should be different skin colours, hues and bone structure in terms of campaign settings I'm not so sure.

The reasons as far as I've seen different human races are used is so we (the gaming audience) immeadiately reach into our memory and go, ok it looks japanese and wears a rich looking kimono with samurai swords, we're auriental samurai type setting here, I know how they're going to basically act with honor etc. if anyone looks different they're probably gonna be special. It's to capitalise on peoples preconceived opinions to get them quicker into the feel of the setting.

Like it or not everyone pigeonholes people, whether its because of the type of car a person drives, VW beetle as opposed to a rolls royce, whether its a member of the royal family, to a youth wearing a tracksuit and a hoody, most if not all people will have a preconcieved opinion on someone or something depending on their appearance, even if you go into something open minded if you meet a sweet old lady who looks like a grandma you'd be suprised if she started rapping or swearing and commenting on the latest video games thats because your initial expectations were based on her looks.

Its not just a matter of skin colour for humans you could run whole different races as contrary to typical expectations, For example having the elves mine and be expert armor smiths fond of axes and beer, have dwarves run about the woods being experts with a bow and magic, if this doesn't ring true to you its probably how some people feel about a black skinned samurai or white skinned desert tribesmen (I myself see nothing wrong with any of these examples being in a game or campaign setting)

Traditionally its seems to me RPG's have used these stereotypes to get across a feel of a nation/area very quickly (legend of the five rings as an extreme example) to its readers by having comparisions to the real world. Whether they try to go against these stereotypes in the future will be interesting.

 

[S'mon]

Really? Whites aren't reknowned for their historical subjugation of darker-skinned peoples? Whites aren't seen as responsible for the problems in the third world?

Plenty of white people have an understandable fear of retribution. Whites are in almost every case the ones accused of racism in the modern world, and certainly in the media all racist characters are white.

Hmm. I don't get the impression that most whites expect non-whites to hate them, any more than most blacks expect non-blacks to hate them, or Chinese expect non-Chinese to hate them. Whites may be aware of the narrative you discuss, which dominates the media (evil racist whites), but my impression is that narrative is created by whites, for whites, and is supposed to make whites feel guilty, not fearful.

I'd think the media narrative of evil racist whites would be more likely to make non-whites fearful of whites, or at least suspicious of whites, than vice-versa.

 

[RabidBob]

Honestly, how would you know peoples' motivations for displaying racist behaviour?

Often the 'racists' themselves don't know why.

Observation. In discussion with such people it most often seems that there's no real reason apart from a false perception of difference. Mostly these people don't even see themselves as racist. "I'm not racist, but ... "

Of course I'm not going to comment on any particular individual's reasoning (or lack thereof) on these things, it's just my general impression/opinion.

Anyway. This is probably a bit off topic.