Raise Dead: A nice big bone to the simulationists

[hong]

And why can't you do that with the old concept? Because you are actually disadvantaged by having a disadvantage?

"Poor" in this context is not a disadvantage, O refugee from GURPS. "Poor" is a defining aspect of a character concept. Whether or not it becomes a disadvantage in play depends on the specifics of the campaign.

 

[Kishin]

Its just fluff.

Fluff can be changed.

Agents of WoTC will not stuff you into a black van, never to be seen again, if you ignore this insignificant little line about requiring 'destiny' to be resurrected. For those who want to use it, its convenient. For those who don't, just whistle and pretend it never was written (Trust me, its not that hard. I do it ever day with the Highlander franchise past the first movie).

Its not like you decided to completely change a mechanical concept of the game, like ability score function.

 

[Derren]

"Poor" in this context is not a disadvantage, O refugee from GURPS. "Poor" is a defining aspect of a character concept. Whether or not it becomes a disadvantage in play depends on the specifics of the campaign.

But how can "poor" being a defined aspect when it doesn't affect the character at all.
It sounds to me that you want all the perks (or role playing stigmata) but none of the disadvantages of being poor. To me this is silly. If you want to play a poor character then play a poor character with advantages and disadvantages this has.

 

[VannATLC]

No 2nd level dnd character is poor.

It is not possible within the framework of any of the adventures.

If you want to play a character under a vow of poverty, thats different.. but even then, you're still allowed, under the old-school paladin rules to buy supplies and armour, etc.

 

[Fenes]

The game assumes you have the expected wealth per level, and access to raise dead. Playing a poor character thats till can adventure means adapting things so the character has still access to gear and other neccessities for adventuring.

 

[VannATLC]

Also..

In the above examples, for a revolt, the peasents should be attacking the clergy. Even a level 9 cleric will fall to a peasent army. It would take less than the mines.

 

[D.Shaffer]

*shrug* Houserule it to 'Only those with action points can be resurrected' if you want something on the character sheet if you really want a 'binary switch' as to whether they can be resurrected or not. If you want it available to everyone, make it available to everyone.

I seriously dont see why this seems like such a game breaker to so many people. It doesnt appear like it's that crucial a part of the design considering the implication you're not going to see it done before 10th anyways.

 

[Celebrim]

In order:
To simulationists, the story is what happens. Sometimes, the story is the story of The Adventurers Who Hung Out In A Tavern While A Mystery Happened To Someone Else. Sometimes, it's The Adventurers Who Got Ambushed and Died In Their Second Random Encounter.

As for your list of people, there is a large amount of difference between exceptional and different. Simulationist adventuring would hold that if you substituted someone with comparable desires and abilities into Bill Gate's life at the important points, you'd have a good shot of getting another Bill Gates. What makes the people on this list special is not that their natures were qualitatively different than humanity; it was their choices, and their actions.

Because, when you start to look at the closely-detailed bits of history, you start noticing that people are pretty much people, and that not only do heroes and villains both have their human sides, but there are veritable loads of people just as heroic and villainous who failed and were forgotten. I think that most people choose not to attempt great things, but those who do choose only buy themselves the chance of success by their decision, and those that do not can always choose differently.

I agree with all of this, albiet that even simulationists stack the dice a little by make the PC's 'above average' and 'at the wrong place at the wrong time'.

To the simulationists, the difference between Bilbo and Frodo Baggins was not their protagonist status, or their elven heritage, or the fact that Eru hand-designed their souls to be adventure-capable; it was that they chose to leave the Shire. Choice, not inherent characteristics, makes heroes heroes.

Agreed, but your point is somewhat undermined by the fact that there is good evidence that Eru did hand design Frodo's soul to be capable of the task. Nonetheless, potentially a hero is not the same as a hero, and a hero is what a hero does - even when you aren't the 'best Hobbit in the Shire'.

 

[WayneLigon]

How do you feel about a world where the gap between rich and poor is so vast?

In the real world, a poor man can be smarter or luckier than his social superiors. Likewise, a king can die of the plague. And no matter how rich you are, "you can't take it with you."

Do you want to game in a world where the saying is "Nothing in life is certain except taxes?"

I don't think that the situation is so different from our real world. In the real world, there are all sorts of medical treatments that you can only get if you're wealthy. I don't see the poor besieging advanced medical centers. When - not if - we get around to things like braintaping and cloned bodies you can be sure that the factory worker pulling down his 25K ain't gonna be one of the people living forever and being ressurected from yesterday's backup when his car wipes out at 300 mph. Also, in a way he will be 'taking it with him' since he won't be going anywhere.

In our D&D fantasy world, I think it's likely that the peasents don't even really know such magic exists and even if they do they probably can't comprehend it. They're probably just told that 'the gods' brought back the king or whatever. And as far as they are concerned, that's absolutely correct.

You know, the diamonds question really doesn't matter. By the time you have people tossing around Raise Dead you're certain to have in your employ someone with Fabricate, AKA 'Horse Poop to Diamonds'. They don't have to be good diamonds, just 5000gp worth of them. A small chest of pale yellow gravel works just as well as a flawless blue-white.

 

[WayneLigon]

In the above examples, for a revolt, the peasents should be attacking the clergy. Even a level 9 cleric will fall to a peasent army. It would take less than the mines.

"Sir, we, um, killed the person who could cast the spell.."

"Umm, so let me get this straight, you got all happy and cut off the head of the only person that can bring back the dead within a 50 mile radius. OK, OK, we can handle this..."

The revolt stuff works all well and good when you're trying to capture a castle or grain silo or iron mine or whatever.. but what you want is a spellcaster. You can hold him hostage to do the spell and that'll probably work for a short time. You have to leave him hale and hearty, though, to be able to cast the spell which means he also has access to all the other spells he could cast. Instead of Raise Dead, he prepares Lesser Planar Ally, summons a Janni and plane shifts out of prison.